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Message |
    
Bob_p
Junior Member
Username: Bob_p
Post Number: 11
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, July 17, 2004 - 7:01 pm: | 
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I just had a friend wire a Turner Super Sidekick to his RCI 2950 replacing a Silver Eagle D-104, and in my opinion the Turner sounded less harsh and more natural I was just wondering if others have an opinion on this. I have a 2970DX and a D-104, but have a Turner in storage and am seriously thinking about switching over to the Super Sidekick. I also have an Astatic 1104-C and have it wired to a Cobra 148 GTL but if anyone has an idea which is the best sounding mic. I would like to hear all opinions.
Thanks
Bob |
Crackerjack
New member
Username: Crackerjack
Post Number: 7
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, July 17, 2004 - 8:22 pm: |
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I have made long-distance DX contact with the TUP-8 D-104 Silver Eagle, and swapped to the others and the distant end copuldn't hear me. |
Dindin
Intermediate Member
Username: Dindin
Post Number: 259
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, July 18, 2004 - 1:16 am: |
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Bob_p,I use a Turner SSK on my Galaxy dx 2547 and all the locals that I have talked to in person say I sound more natural with volume set about 10 to 11 o'clock posisition and the output on bottom set to full counter clockwise.also run the micgain on radio full open with mic set as above. |
Hollowpoint445
Intermediate Member
Username: Hollowpoint445
Post Number: 125
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, July 18, 2004 - 3:10 am: |
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I've made many DX contacts with a stock hand mic on a mobile rig. Operating technique usually means more that how you sound.
Use whatever microphone you like. If the folks you chat with regularly like how you sound on one mic better than another I'd trust their judgement.
And you could always listen to yourself on another radio or tape yourself and listen to how you sound with both microphones saying the same thing. I do that with every new microphone I use just to see what it sounds like on the air.
I personally prefer Turner mics to D104's because the high cut of the D104 doesn't sound pleasant to my ears. Turners are more even or maybe even bassy in comparison. I have a few electret microphones that have a very even responce and I prefer them for chatting locally. |
Waverider
Junior Member
Username: Waverider
Post Number: 31
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, July 18, 2004 - 2:43 pm: |
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I have a couple of Turner SSK's and have used them since they were still being built. I also have a couple of +3's that I like. Certain mic's are gonna sound better with some radios and not as good on others. I run SSB most of the time and the tone of the SSK's work very well there. I have a couple of newer radios and there is so much audio built into the radios I just run the stock mic. The only reason I'd run another mic on these radios is if I did not like the tone. As for D104's there is nothing wrong with them. I just wish some folks would turn them down a little. I run one one on my old Washington and it sounds great. Just my 2 cents!
Barry |
Tech548
Moderator
Username: Tech548
Post Number: 144
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, July 18, 2004 - 11:07 pm: |
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Bob_p
The Turner Super Sidekick was and still is to this day a very impressive sounding microphone for sideband use. It's a shame they are no longer made.
There was once a modification that some outfit would do to your D-104 amplifier if you sent it to them. There was a fee for this of course. And after hearing both the stock and modified 104 Amp in comparison, it just blew me away. Still using the stock crystal head, it had the richest sound in audio I ever heard come from a Astatic D-104.
I would love to know the company's name or their web site. If anyone happens to know anything about this company, I sure would appreciate you sharing it with us.
Jeff
Tech548 |
Hollowpoint445
Intermediate Member
Username: Hollowpoint445
Post Number: 128
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Monday, July 19, 2004 - 1:25 am: |
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Is this it?
http://home.comcast.net/~esprepair/d104.htm |
Tech548
Moderator
Username: Tech548
Post Number: 151
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Monday, July 19, 2004 - 2:26 am: |
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Allllllright Hollowpoint!! You're the man!
I've been looking for that site for quite some time now. I had it in my "Favorites" but some how it got deleted.
One question my friend---do you by any chance know how they do it or what their little secret is?
Jeff.
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Hollowpoint445
Intermediate Member
Username: Hollowpoint445
Post Number: 129
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Monday, July 19, 2004 - 12:19 pm: |
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Tech548 - yes and no.
I didn't have it saved as a favorite, but I knew what site you were talking about, so I looked for D104 modifications in Google. This guy has A LOT of free pages on the internet advertising his service - this was just one of the sites I found, but I think it's his main page.
In the process I found many pages that referred to a problem with the amplifier in the amplified D104's. It seems that Astatic made the amplifier so that the D104 could be used with low impedance radios, but they didn't get the amplifier's input impedance high enough to properly match the crystal element. Quite a few mailing lists referred to an article in an amateur radio magazine that had an amplifier designed to better match the crystal element's impedance and then work with a modern radio that has an impedance of about 500 ohms.
I found a page that shows a simple circuit to modify a non-amplified D104, but I didn't come across any pages that show how to modify an amplified D104.
Here's the link:
http://www.fredspinner.com/W0FMS/micpreamp/ |
Dindin
Intermediate Member
Username: Dindin
Post Number: 265
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Monday, July 19, 2004 - 9:04 pm: |
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Hollowpoint445,that same circuit appeared in 73 magazine in the early 80's titeled "more talk power for cb conversions".I still have a few mpf-102 in the parts drawers left over from those days. |
Yankee
Intermediate Member
Username: Yankee
Post Number: 147
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Monday, July 19, 2004 - 11:09 pm: |
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Tech-548 Hi Jeff, from the sounds of the recordings this guy is rebuilding the whole circuit and using much better transistors, there isn't that much to this microphone amplifier. All you need to do is get your hands on one that he has done and I'll bet you can figure out what he has done. I know one thing that gives the Silver Eagle stand a different sound and more punch and that is what a lot of sideband operators have done. we have went to the 10DA head without changing the amplifier and reports we get are more audio and a more natural sound, some say it's like the sound of a studio microphone.
73, Yankee CEF-357 |
Hollowpoint445
Intermediate Member
Username: Hollowpoint445
Post Number: 132
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Monday, July 19, 2004 - 11:53 pm: |
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Dindin - The article I saw referenced was from QST in 1999, so I don't know if it was the same author or not. Did you ever use the circuit with a D104? How does it sound?
Yankee - It's not about the quality of the transistors, it's about the impedance match of the amplifier and the crystal element. It's possible this kind of circuit was used to match the impedance of the D104's crystal element to the amplifier already in the D104. It's also possible that he just completely replaced the amplifier with this type of circuit. |
Tech548
Moderator
Username: Tech548
Post Number: 152
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 20, 2004 - 11:55 am: |
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Thanks Yankee
I think I still have a couple of the old 10-DAL heads around here somewhere. It's been awhile since I used them.
For the moment I'm using a Kenwood MC-60 into a DeltaForce that's in my workroom and a Heil Goldline that is now mounted on a MC-80 running into an old Kenwood TS-430. I also have a couple of Eagles and some other 104s that I have customized but have never done anything with their amplifiers.
A couple of years ago I heard the difference between this companys modified 104 and a stock 104 and have always wanted to try it myself but wasn't really sure where to start. Hollowpoint has given me a couple of ideas and I think I'd like to do some experimentation with some impedence changes.
This must be a well guarded secret otherwise there would be far more of these modified 104s out there than there are now. Either that or this company is charging a pretty penny to do this modification.
Jeff. |
Hollowpoint445
Intermediate Member
Username: Hollowpoint445
Post Number: 139
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 20, 2004 - 4:37 pm: |
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Tech548 - Price is $100 for the modification.
I don't know about you, but I consider that a bit steep. Let us know how the experimentation comes out. I dig the look of the D104, I just don't care for the responce. |
Dindin
Intermediate Member
Username: Dindin
Post Number: 270
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 20, 2004 - 7:36 pm: |
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Hollowpoint445,I have used it in 2 different d-104,a shure 444 and a shure handmic(mod # unknown)with good results on all.it is not a "power mic"mod but instead an Impedence match between older mics and newer radios.more efficient than the matching transformer normally used in those tybes of mics.its improvment is not in boosting talkpower but is in recovering frequency response lost due to impedence mismatch.one of the d-104 was an old unpowered one and the other had a bad amp board. |
Hollowpoint445
Intermediate Member
Username: Hollowpoint445
Post Number: 141
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 20, 2004 - 9:54 pm: |
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Dindin - Is the circuit you used the same one? If not how was it different? You didn't happen to make a before and after recording did you? Did anyone you speak to know it was a D104, or did they think it was another kind of microphone? How high is the output level? Do you know anyone who's used this type of circuit to better match the element to the existing amplifier? |
Dindin
Intermediate Member
Username: Dindin
Post Number: 273
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 21, 2004 - 4:26 pm: |
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Hollowpoint445,didnt make a recording,and it is the same circuit.the most recent version i used were on the 444 and d-104 to replace the bad amp.on the d-104 I left the output control intact but it was not needed,with it turned full open the mic would not over load the radio(uniden zachary T)reports were that it had a rich full sound,a big boost over the stock handmic.Listeners could still tell the d-104 from the 444 because of the bloop or clack that d-104 produce when unkeyed on uniden radios,the 444 never did that.was told it was because of the switches in astatic mics.incidently I have a circuit filed away that does the same thing using either a 741 or TL081 op-amp chip and another circuit using 2 quad 741 op-amp chips.the second used 1 stage as a hi to lo-z match,6 octaves of equilization and the final stage as amplification providing up to 1 volt peak to peak output.maybe its time to dig that one out and put to use an Electro-Voice hi-z studio mic that I have,Hmmm... |
Crackerjack
Member
Username: Crackerjack
Post Number: 63
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 21, 2004 - 7:05 pm: |
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I have a Uniden 810E Base and although the D-104 makes it walk tall, I get a strange sound when unkeying as well. |
Dindin
Intermediate Member
Username: Dindin
Post Number: 275
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 21, 2004 - 8:45 pm: |
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Crackerjack,first off in my opinion the Uniden pro810e was just about the best base uniden ever built for 11 meter.there are several different radios that d-104 would give that strange unkey sound.I have heard anything from a "bloop" on unidens to a hard"clack" on Excaliburs.not really annoying but noticable. |
Tech808
Moderator
Username: Tech808
Post Number: 3032
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 21, 2004 - 11:00 pm: |
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Here is what I have found on the D-104 Modification very good pictures and diagrams.
Try the Link below:
http://www.mods.dk/mod/other/DG2IAQ_Modification_Sheet_Astatic_D-104_Silver_Eagle.pdf
Hope this helps.
Lon
Tech808 |
Hollowpoint445
Intermediate Member
Username: Hollowpoint445
Post Number: 148
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, July 22, 2004 - 2:20 am: |
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Good to know it worked well Dindin - thanks! I may have to roll one myself and give it a try. |
Gonzo
Junior Member
Username: Gonzo
Post Number: 15
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, September 25, 2004 - 6:17 pm: |
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"The Turner Super Sidekick was and still is to this day a very impressive sounding microphone for sideband use. It's a shame they are no longer made."
I agree totally one of the best Base mic's ever. Run circles around all others |
Bob_p
Intermediate Member
Username: Bob_p
Post Number: 423
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, September 25, 2004 - 8:34 pm: |
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I agree 100%. I have tried several other mic's on my RCI 2970DX that I have set up as a base radio and none sounded close to the SSK.
I had two, one was in poor shape (the feet where really worn and the mic gain was set at half way and wouldn't adjust). Anyway a friend needed a SSB mic. for his RCI 2950DX so I let him have it. He's really happy with it and has fixed some of the problems on the mic. He was really surprised but it easily put his Silver Eagle on the display rack. So now I've been looking for a solid back up desk mic.
I used to have a Turner +3B in the old days and thought it was a pretty good mic. but I can't really compare the two.
I think I'll be getting one of the Workman DM-452 mic's but it's going to have to wait a month or so. |
Gonzo
Junior Member
Username: Gonzo
Post Number: 20
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2004 - 8:41 pm: |
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apparently even those pesky ham's agree
http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/2714 |
Bob_p
Advanced Member
Username: Bob_p
Post Number: 572
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Monday, December 13, 2004 - 10:56 pm: |
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Speaking of pesky ham's here's a follow up on how the Turner mic's sound on my new Kenwood TS 480HX.
I kept trying to get on air radio reports on how the mic's sounded and got different opinions from different people, and that was no help.
Last night I found out that the Kenwood has a TX monitor so you can hear what you sound like when you transmit with a head set on.
First off I was really surprised at how good the Stock Hand mic sounds. The Turners are both slightly better sounding than the stock hand mic, but it's not a night and day diffence.
The Turner +3 sounds a little more like Heils HC-4 DX type of mic element.
http://www.heilsound.com/amateur/hcelements.htm
The Super Sidekick has a little deeper tone more like the HC-5 element, both are very clear, but sound different from each other.
The results are without the onboard TX EQ on.
Just thought I would mention how the old Turner mic's hold up on the newer Ham radios.
73
Bob |
Racer X (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 14, 2004 - 6:40 am: |
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Your observations make sense as the +3 has a ceramic element and the SSK has a dynamic element. Classic microphones and classic sound. Love those Turners!
That MC-43 is a nice little microphone isn't it? Get hold of a MC-60A and you'll love it too. I like how it looks as much as how it sounds. |
Azstorm
Junior Member
Username: Azstorm
Post Number: 17
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, December 19, 2004 - 6:26 pm: |
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The D-104 has a trebly sound while the Turner has a warmer tone with more bass,similar to the DAL astatic head.
It just depends on what type of sound youd like to acheive.both are excellent mics! |
Bob_p
Advanced Member
Username: Bob_p
Post Number: 704
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 4:55 am: |
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Racer X I have been thinking about getting an MC-60A. But would like to know how it compares to the Heil GM-5?
Thanks
Bob |
Racer_x
Member
Username: Racer_x
Post Number: 81
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 9:41 am: |
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Sorry Bob, but I don't own any Heil microphones yet, so I can't compare the two.
They're both dynamic, so they should sound similar. Heil claims to have a bit of a bump in responce near 2KHz which should make it have a bit of a rising tone, but not overly so like the D104s do.
I've read that folks replace the element in MC-60s with the Heil HC-5 and say the microphone sounds better, so you might just want to stick with your Heil. |
Road_warrior
Intermediate Member
Username: Road_warrior
Post Number: 332
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 6:35 pm: |
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I once had a Galaxy Saturn and the only
Mic that sounded good on it was a
Turner Super Sidekick./ That radio was
strange./ Every other Mic i trid on it
sounded really tinny./ Even the stock mic
sounded horrible./ Had to turn Bass pot up
to max on SSK and it rocked!
JIM/PA/CEF 375 |
Racer_x
Member
Username: Racer_x
Post Number: 88
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 7:27 pm: |
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Bass pot? Do you mean the pot on the base of the mic? If so, that really shouldn't have been necessary. You might have had a problem with the audio amp in the radio. That output control really doesn't need to be turned up very far for a solid state radio. |
Road_warrior
Intermediate Member
Username: Road_warrior
Post Number: 336
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 8:36 pm: |
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Yeah, your probably right Racer X.
I know it was the radio because my friend had
the same radio & it didn't react to mics
like my did./ I can't get any Turner Mic
to work on my RCI 2995dx base either...lol
Sounds to bassy./ I found the Silver Salute
to sound nice, clear on it. And DM-452 really
does it justice & a few others sound good.
I really like Turner Mics as they have worked
great on alot of my other radios. I like
D-104's as long as my voice doesn't sound
tinny. I tried my friends Silver Eagle on
my RCI it sounded good. But, tinnier than
my Silver Salute sounds on it.
JIM/PA/CEF 375 |
Bob_p
Advanced Member
Username: Bob_p
Post Number: 705
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 11:13 pm: |
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Racer X thanks, I'll probably end up with an MC 60A someday, but at least I don't feel like someone was selling me a bill of goods now.
By the way I tried listening to the Kenwood with the dummy load on the RCI, and then on both, and it was never clean enough to do close comparisons or fine tuning work with the EQ. I suppose I'll have to buy another Kenwood TS 480 to listen while I fine tune the audio 
Thanks
Bob |
Bob_p
Advanced Member
Username: Bob_p
Post Number: 706
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 11:31 pm: |
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Road warrior I used a plain old +3 on my 2970DX, and I was always being told how good the radio sounded. I tried the SSK and it did sound good, but too much bass. I hated the way my Silver Eagle sounded on the 2970DX, and so I tried a bunch of different mic's including a D-104 with a 10 DA head, a Black and Chrome D-104 Special, an 1104-C a couple of SSK's, a Turner SSB +2 a Turner +3B a CS-1 and a DM-452 plus a few Astatic hand mic's, and I was told the +3 sounded better than any of the other mic's I have. I would guess I tried no less than 9 mic's all together and the +3 always came out on top. Oh the 575-M6 wasn't bad on it either, if you have only laying around.
It just have been that mic, but I was told it was very natural sounding and loud!
Good luck on your search.
Bob
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Racer_x
Member
Username: Racer_x
Post Number: 92
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Friday, March 04, 2005 - 6:51 am: |
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Bob_p - You said in another thread that it sounded like you were under water. Have you tried dropping all of the equalization? Is the speech processor off? I'd try the audio as raw as possible and see how it sounds.
When you turn down the Kenwood to 5 watts and transmit into the dummy load, have you tried FM? Are you using headphones with the 2970 while talking into the Kenwood? I'm also curious about exactly how you have it set up too. |
