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Message |
Rich_1833
Junior Member Username: Rich_1833
Post Number: 29 Registered: 5-2004
| Posted on Friday, May 28, 2004 - 3:12 pm: |
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what is the KL 400 all about ? Why does it cost so much and olny put out about 125 watts ? You can buy the KL300p for less and get more power is there something Im missing here or what. |
Tech808
Moderator Username: Tech808
Post Number: 2511 Registered: 8-2002
| Posted on Friday, May 28, 2004 - 3:38 pm: |
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HMMMMMMMMMM, Maybe because the KL-400 has a 6 Position's for power instead of Hi & Low like the KL-300. Or because the KL-400 has 2 ~ MRF 455's in it and the KL-300 use's 2 ~ SD 1446 finals. Check out the other Spec in the Link's below. http://www.copperelectronics.com/cgi-bin/checkitout/checkitout.cgi?catalogSTORE:CKIE:prodW90-KL300P+ http://www.copperelectronics.com/cgi-bin/checkitout/checkitout.cgi?catalogSTORE:CKIE:prodW90-KL400+ Just a thought. Lon Tech808 |
Alsworld
Advanced Member Username: Alsworld
Post Number: 810 Registered: 1-2002
| Posted on Friday, May 28, 2004 - 9:31 pm: |
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Rich_1833, I'm not sure on the 300 except that is does not have an independant preamp, but the 400 is biased AB-1. It's one sweet talking amp. The 125 watts are AM, expect more on SSB. Also as Tech808 mentioned, six power settings are nice. Food for thought. Alsworld |
Nickel
Junior Member Username: Nickel
Post Number: 10 Registered: 7-2004
| Posted on Monday, August 02, 2004 - 7:50 pm: |
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Does anybody know how many amps it uses on high and the setting right below high? |
Crackerjack
Intermediate Member Username: Crackerjack
Post Number: 182 Registered: 7-2004
| Posted on Monday, August 02, 2004 - 10:18 pm: |
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I have a kl 400, and the power output is heavily dependant on available DC input. Mine draws 27+ amps on highest settings. Also, I doubt that you can see 300W on the meter from a 300P.
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Tech548
Moderator Username: Tech548
Post Number: 186 Registered: 5-2004
| Posted on Tuesday, August 03, 2004 - 3:09 pm: |
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Crackerjack Yes it will. I experimented with a couple of the 300s. If hammered with 20 plus watts of sideband power, they will definately go to the 300 watt mark. However, I would never recomend this practice to anyone because of the quick heat buildup and the shortened lifespan of the power devices. Remember, it is extreme heat that usually destroys linears. I was doing this for experimental purposes only and didn't really care if the finals smoked or not since they are relatively inexpensive and easy to replace. Jeff Tech548 |
Crackerjack
Intermediate Member Username: Crackerjack
Post Number: 193 Registered: 7-2004
| Posted on Tuesday, August 03, 2004 - 5:24 pm: |
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548: Yes but, all things (antenna, dc power, swr, modulation) being the same, if he can't swing a 400 to max -he can't swing a 300 to max. I am guessing. |
Tech548
Moderator Username: Tech548
Post Number: 193 Registered: 5-2004
| Posted on Wednesday, August 04, 2004 - 5:07 pm: |
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Good point Crackerjack. And I have to admit, I have never played with a KL-400. And on another point, having a linear with a bunch of different power settings is just plain silly. The only advantage there is the fact that it does work as a good selling gimick. Jeff |
Crackerjack
Intermediate Member Username: Crackerjack
Post Number: 205 Registered: 7-2004
| Posted on Wednesday, August 04, 2004 - 9:05 pm: |
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548: Actually, I like the settings. Most of the time, I just need a small "punch" and 400W was overkill. So, I had the advantage of a 40W, 90W, or 150W punch and seldom needed the full throttle. BUT it was available all the same. Maybe not a neccessity, but a very nice thing to have as a choice. |
Alsworld
Advanced Member Username: Alsworld
Post Number: 850 Registered: 1-2002
| Posted on Wednesday, August 04, 2004 - 10:36 pm: |
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I must agree with CrackerJack. For a CB, using the 400 on setting 1 or 2 for example gives a nice little punch like a modulator does, and more watts than you will see out of a standard dual final export radio (100 watt exports excluded). Kick it up a little higher and you can swing into the watts on SSB (200+) that tend to get you heard and sound very clear provided your radio input sounds good. Also, with the variable power settings, (especially combined with a radio that has variable power), you can almost always achieve the right amount of input (and ratio respectively) to drive larger amps capable of of taking a driver. They could easily drive an Ameritron or KLV-1000 (4 tube high drive unit), or some of the larger mobile amplifiers for large watts while maintaining great SSB clarity. Or be a satisfactory beginner amp that sounds great on AM and SSB for those just seeking a few extra watts without breaking the bank. It's seems to be a "practical" setup in some ways. My .02 cents anyways. Alsworld
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Crackerjack
Intermediate Member Username: Crackerjack
Post Number: 207 Registered: 7-2004
| Posted on Thursday, August 05, 2004 - 1:19 am: |
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Alsworld: Also, it can be reduced when the power supply is under heavy load. Most of all, I appreciate the lowest setting when running AM over an area of say 10 miles. I get 30/40 clean watts and dont blow away everything close top me. I seldome run over #3 AM/or SSB -but I can. |
Tech808
Moderator Username: Tech808
Post Number: 3209 Registered: 8-2002
| Posted on Thursday, August 05, 2004 - 5:59 pm: |
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Crackerjack & Alsworld I agree 100% the KL 400 with the Variable Power is Great. To me personally it is a very nice feature that allows you to use only what you need. Just my nickels worth. Lon Tech808 |
Airplane1
Member Username: Airplane1
Post Number: 81 Registered: 5-2004
| Posted on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 11:58 am: |
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I got the KL-500 and run it with my 40 amp power supply and used it for the first time on the CEFs. without it I could not get anyone,not on the first power setting eather. But When I set it to the second power setting thats when I made my first DX contact on the CEFs so I like the 6 power setting and have the option of going to even more power if needed,If not needed then great, I`ll just keep it turned down and save my power supply. I think it great. Just my opinion. airplane1 |
Ca346
Advanced Member Username: Ca346
Post Number: 935 Registered: 8-2003
| Posted on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 3:54 pm: |
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I'm with Airplane. I've got the KL-500 also. Amazing piece of equipement. Never really had it above level 3. But it's there if I need it. It will last a long time because it's runing at lower power. My 4 cents worth! |
Crackerjack
Intermediate Member Username: Crackerjack
Post Number: 235 Registered: 7-2004
| Posted on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 2:32 pm: |
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Other than the need for HUGE Power Supplies, I love them. |
Bluegrass
Junior Member Username: Bluegrass
Post Number: 14 Registered: 12-2004
| Posted on Sunday, December 05, 2004 - 9:42 am: |
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i'm planing on getting a klv-400 and i want to know how much carrier power to expect from it(not pep just reguler talk power). |
Highlander
Advanced Member Username: Highlander
Post Number: 712 Registered: 12-2001
| Posted on Sunday, December 05, 2004 - 10:36 am: |
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KLV-400 Base, or KL-400 mobile? Two different animals. The KL-400 mobile is what is being discussed in this thread. |
Bluegrass
Junior Member Username: Bluegrass
Post Number: 19 Registered: 12-2004
| Posted on Monday, December 06, 2004 - 12:29 pm: |
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oh!i didn't know that.i'm talking about the base model. |
Highlander
Advanced Member Username: Highlander
Post Number: 717 Registered: 12-2001
| Posted on Monday, December 06, 2004 - 6:51 pm: |
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On the higher power setting on the KLV-400 Base, with a 2 watt deadkey from the radio, I get around 80 watts AM carrier out of the amp, and it swings up from there when you modulate. I overcouple my KLV-400 to get that result, it works well. |
Bluegrass
Junior Member Username: Bluegrass
Post Number: 21 Registered: 12-2004
| Posted on Wednesday, December 08, 2004 - 12:05 pm: |
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what do you mean overcouple? and my radio puts out about 3-3 1/2 watts i can't change it i don't have a power control knob on my radio. |
Bruce
Senior Member Username: Bruce
Post Number: 1849 Registered: 9-2003
| Posted on Wednesday, December 08, 2004 - 2:24 pm: |
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I think he meens over drive. the best way to run am on a cheep amp is to measure output and change the drive if the output goes up linearly when you reach a point that is is no longer linear ( say your amp gives 100 watts for 5 watts drive, 80 for 4 60 for 3 and 20 watts for 2 watt but you go to 6 watts drive and you get 105 its OVERDRIVEN. Now logic tells you since a AM transmitter doubles its output at 100% modulation seting the drive to 2-3 watts will produse a fairly clean signal. Its that simple. |
Highlander
Advanced Member Username: Highlander
Post Number: 718 Registered: 12-2001
| Posted on Wednesday, December 08, 2004 - 2:35 pm: |
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Overcoupling is one way to set this kind of amp for AM use. You adjust the tune and load controls while *briefly* transmitting a small carrier into the amp. You tune both controls for max reading on a wattmeter, then you rotate the load control to the right until you reduce the power by about 30 percent. This gives you a lower carrier, and the amp will have room to "swing" up from there. Another way to do this is tune the "tune" knob for max, then tune the load control for maximum while saying "ahhh" into the mic--this should arrive at the same setting as the other method. The KLV manual for this amp doesn't mention overcoupling, but you will find that without it, just tuning both knobs for maximum wattage with deadkey, you will have too high of a deadkey, and the amp won't "swing" on AM they way it should. |
Bluegrass
Member Username: Bluegrass
Post Number: 65 Registered: 12-2004
| Posted on Friday, December 31, 2004 - 1:52 pm: |
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so in plain english what should i do to get the most power out of my klv-400 with my stock radio at about 3-3 1/2watts deadkey and about 4-5watts pep? |
Tech808
Moderator Username: Tech808
Post Number: 4457 Registered: 8-2002
| Posted on Monday, January 03, 2005 - 11:14 am: |
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BLuegrass, Have your Radio Peaked and Tuned and Aligned for Maximum Performance by a Good Qualified Tech with the Radio / Test Equipment to do it properly. If you Radio is operating at 100% peak performance then you can expect 100% peak performance form the Amp. If your radio is Not operating at 100% then you cannot expect the Amp to perform at 100%. Lon Tech808 CEF808 N9OSN |
Bluegrass
Member Username: Bluegrass
Post Number: 72 Registered: 12-2004
| Posted on Tuesday, January 04, 2005 - 10:08 am: |
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so could i take my base to copper where i bought it and have them do it or will they only do it when you buy the radio? |
Tech808
Moderator Username: Tech808
Post Number: 4462 Registered: 8-2002
| Posted on Tuesday, January 04, 2005 - 10:22 am: |
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Bluegrass, The: "Modify for 11 meter and Tune Up" Option, would have needed to be purchased and done at the time you purchased it and then you would have had to let them know you were planning on using it with an Amplifier and what kind of amplifier so it could have been set properly. Sorry, but Copper does not work on Radios or Radio Equipment. Lon Tech808 CEF808 N9OSN |
Bluegrass
Member Username: Bluegrass
Post Number: 73 Registered: 12-2004
| Posted on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 11:06 am: |
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i didn't need it modifyed for 11 meters it's a texas ranger tr-696f-ssb not an export radio. |
Mikefromms
Advanced Member Username: Mikefromms
Post Number: 541 Registered: 6-2003
| Posted on Saturday, April 02, 2005 - 12:05 pm: |
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I think the kl-300 is a louder amp. mikefromms |
Itatorro
New member Username: Itatorro
Post Number: 1 Registered: 6-2005
| Posted on Monday, June 06, 2005 - 10:54 pm: |
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Hilander and Blue Grass. i am new here and i just ordered a kl-400 today. BG's radio is not doing 100% modulation (No Radio Clipping)and it is within RM italys input specs. BTW i am in the same boat with an unmodifiable CB. Are we saying that this stock radio will not sound good even though we are putting a clean signal into the amp? it seems that we shouldn't be driving the amp into clipping at these input levels. tha only thing that seems that should be different is the audio percieved loudness in a Reciever do to having less swing from DK to PEP. please educate: im new to AM and Amps |
Crackerjack
Advanced Member Username: Crackerjack
Post Number: 635 Registered: 7-2004
| Posted on Monday, June 06, 2005 - 11:50 pm: |
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Actually, ITATORRO, you chose the right Amp. If you look at the specifications at the www.rmitaly.com site, the KL-400/500 amps accept a higher level of RF input power, than most of the others. I currently have two of the 400's installed in Missionaries' vehicles, and they run their dx-959's wide open into the 400. That is 12W-20W PEP and around 8 watts dead key AM. Now before somebody gets their shorts in a bunch, these radios are across the border in Black Rock, Mexico. LOL The kl-400 has 6 selectable power levels, and is therefore good to have -even if you never put it above level 3 or 4 (where we run ours -because they are actually designed to run that way). They are extremely clean amps. As long as the signal going in is clean and the SWR is low, you should be happy. |
Chad
Intermediate Member Username: Chad
Post Number: 309 Registered: 11-2004
| Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 9:48 am: |
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There are 2 "KL400's" A klv400 and a kl400, the klv has tubes the KL is sand state. Which one did you get, I am soooo trying to get some reports on the KLV400! Chad |
Itatorro
New member Username: Itatorro
Post Number: 2 Registered: 6-2005
| Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 4:54 pm: |
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I did a search of "kl 400" and it returned a lot of result. KLV 400 is a base amp though and seems to get praise from users here. CrackerJack thank you for your input. I feel better now about my order. Can you tell me what i might expect the output to be with 3w DK and 6w PP Swing with this amp? Don't don't even want to say what radio i have even though it seems to work good in my limited space installation and FireStikII 4ft antenna. |
Itatorro
New member Username: Itatorro
Post Number: 3 Registered: 6-2005
| Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 6:59 pm: |
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CrackerJack:I forgot to ask a ? How warm do your 400's get with your normal ops and pwr set to #3? Thanks Chad: I ordered the KL Solid state Mobile. never used one. never used an external amp. purchased only from the good word on this forum and a friend that is on his second one as an upgrade. |
Crackerjack
Advanced Member Username: Crackerjack
Post Number: 648 Registered: 7-2004
| Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 8:10 pm: |
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I live in S. Texas and operate in Mexico and never have had a heat problem yet, even running on #6. I have never run on #6 for long conversations though. Buit on #3 04 #4, there has never even been a concern. And I feel them all the time. I don't think that #3/#4 "taxes" the pills. Also, the input tolerances are higher on that (kl-400/kl-500) amp, than on all the other "kl" solid state amps. Best bang for the buck,
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Itatorro
New member Username: Itatorro
Post Number: 5 Registered: 6-2005
| Posted on Wednesday, June 08, 2005 - 7:48 pm: |
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Now i am concerned again. I was looking at the Spec page on copperelectronics.com for this amp and rmitaly.com...Why so different? RM italy says 200w/400w SSB and copper says 125w. the picture that copper has is different color the RM's website. copper lists the amp as having 455 finals which matches RM's for the version 3.02 amp. from what i gather the 455 fianls are at least more robust and seems also that they should have more gain the 1446's of previous versions. I know that 75w of DK is not that much at this power level but the difference between Copper's Spec and RM' will be about 150w PEP. What amp will i be getting? Is it a real RM? I have seen a lot of info. that says if RM says you'll get that much power then your amp will do it. ?????????????????????????????????????????? |
Alsworld
Advanced Member Username: Alsworld
Post Number: 923 Registered: 1-2002
| Posted on Wednesday, June 08, 2005 - 9:25 pm: |
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Here is the scoop. The 400 mobile amps are indeed black, although RM's website shows them as red. Same with the 500. Yes it is a real RM you get from Coppers. 125W is about right for AM, being the 455's are rated at 60 watts each. Swing, deadkey setting, and your meter will determine how many watts you see. It will usually read higher on SSB but once again it depends on swing and your meter there. Tight meters, loose meters, Bird meters, PEP vs RMS meters, etc. all have an affect on what you will see. Some places advertise the 400's as having 1446's, and some buyers have verified that their indeed have these transistors. Those are rated at 70 watts a piece, so in theory it may put out a few more watts in a perfect world. No one on the receiving end will notice that 20 watts difference. Others have the 455's. Who knows why really? You will also see that RMItaly rates these amps much higher than anyone will actually get from them. Feeding a 400 with 10 watts AM is plain foolish, but they say it's okay. Yeah, you may see the advertised numbers for awhile, but that amp won't last very long. Run it from 1 1/2 - 2 1/2 watts deadkey and it will last forever. The only realistic advertised amp numbers I have found are from some of the competitions amps like X-Force or Davemade to name a few. RM amps are made in Italy. Most American consumers tend to run the 10 meter amps modified to operate on 11 meters as well. What are we going to do, sue them for false advertising over a $100 amp? Ain't worth the court cost. But, rest assured here. They do put out some nice watts, but most of all is they sound fantastic on AM and SSB, especially the 400. I recommend that you stop questioning your purchase and relax, you have made a darn fine choice. Once you hear your radio checks, peace and harmony will wash you over with a rather large smile. No more worries. Enjoy... Alsworld |
Itatorro
New member Username: Itatorro
Post Number: 6 Registered: 6-2005
| Posted on Thursday, June 09, 2005 - 9:12 am: |
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Thanks Alsworld. from a price performance perspective i feel good about this amp and i am very glad for the clean opperation of the amp. A good bump in pwr and a clean signal is whats important anyway. i cant stand hearing a distorted signal that splatters.. all i want is to get heard if i need to be. I like the thought that "it is better to have and not need it than to need it and not have it."
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Itatorro
New member Username: Itatorro
Post Number: 7 Registered: 6-2005
| Posted on Friday, June 10, 2005 - 4:47 pm: |
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My amp arrived. ??? I got a VIP version>>?? the face is wood grain with black heat sink... on the box a sticker Says "working in 10 meters only" the lit/Manual if you will that came in the boxs says freq range is 3-21MHZ. Do i need to modify this amp? thanks |
Tech808
Moderator Username: Tech808
Post Number: 6052 Registered: 8-2002
| Posted on Friday, June 10, 2005 - 4:55 pm: |
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Itatorro, If you ordered your Amplifier from Copper Electronics then NO you do not need to do anything or modify it. Just make sure your dead key power is set around 2-1/2 watts to 3 watts and you are all set. IF you did not get it from Copper then I have all of the Modification's for the KLV/KL/RM Italy Amps listed to the LEFT of the Main Forum here in the Modification List under KLV. Tools Mic. Wiring Frequency Chart CB & Ham Lingo Modification List Hope this help's, Lon Tech808 CEF808 N9OSN |
Itatorro
New member Username: Itatorro
Post Number: 8 Registered: 6-2005
| Posted on Saturday, June 11, 2005 - 12:47 pm: |
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thank you Tech808 I did rcv it fr Copper. Just in case i did check the Mod List anyway. FYI: I could only find Mod for Make: KLV Model: 400. I was confused as I was looking for Make: RM Model KL400.. I guess this may beee ok as long as it don't make any diff. between Mods for Base or Mobile amps..... thanks again j |