| Author |
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Taz
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 11:47 pm: | 
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300 divided by wavelength in meters equals frequency in MHz.
Example, What frequency has a 6 meter wave length ?
300 divided by 6 equals 50 MHz.
So, 1750 devided by 300 = 5.83 mhz
Is this correct? |
Tech181
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 12:52 am: |
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Are you trying to figure out what meter a frequency would be by knowing the frequency? I am not sure what you are asking.
5.83 Mhz would be 51 meters...
Steve
Tech181
Tech181@copperelectronics.com |
Tech181
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 12:54 am: |
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Oh okay, now I think I understand what you are saying. 1750 meters would be 171 KHz. You have to divide 1750 into 300 not the other way around.
There IS activity down there and below. Search the internet for "lowfers"...
Steve
Tech181
Tech181@copperelectronics.com |
Taz
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 1:31 am: |
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ok i see, i did it backwards |
Taz
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 1:31 am: |
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what kind of radio goes down there? |
Taz
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 1:34 am: |
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cant you talk all the way around the world with like 4 watts on that? |
Taz
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 1:36 am: |
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i found a site that said no licence is required to transmit there |
Lowferguy
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 8:22 am: |
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I have a lowfer beacon on 191kcs. It is a cw loop that repeats KOH8 in cw over and over. I have it on 24 7 I am in Ohio. It is 1w into a 50ft wire ant. If anyone wants info on 1750 mtrs leave me a msg here |
rice1030@fuse.net
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 10:37 am: |
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Taz
I belive that you are limited to 1 watt . |
Tech181
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 1:04 pm: |
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Lowferguy,
Send me the info. I will see if I can receive your beacon here in PA.
Steve
Tech181
Tech181@copperelectronics.com |
Phineas
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 2:54 pm: |
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968/ will give you the wave length in feet. |
Sodapop
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 5:05 pm: |
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Lowferguy: Fill me in here. This is all new to me.
Do you need a licence?
If so where do you get one?
How much power can you run?
And do you have a callsign?
And where do I get a radio that covers that freq, and what is the freqs you run if you have a radio/licence?
So many questions, and now I have to wait for answers to my post, or an emails, maybe a fax....wait, I have no fax, bummer! *G* I need INFO! |
bruce
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 6:24 pm: |
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wow !!! there is someone other than me! maby as soon as my shack is back up ill get the reciver back up guys i was not kidding but i almost thought i was alone...... time to dust it back off!!!! |
bruce
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 6:35 pm: |
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there has been many things printed about the 1750 band my reciver is a conveter into a ten-tec direct converson reciver built for 160 meters(board is 29 bucks) conveter is home made 2mhz crystal mixing against the 1800-1900 khz reciver for 100-200 khz.... transmitter is a 1 watt built from popular comm everything is boxed up till this room is done the frequency is so low stabilty is no problem ... neet band every thing is big real big a 1/4 wave is 1400 foot! lofer ill set my reciver for your beeking soon final on this room is set fot one more week!!!!
bruce |
bruce
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 6:53 pm: |
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lofer whats the scoop 191 khz????did they adjust the band outward from 160-190 to 160-200 ???? i know the arrl wants some changes by reciver is cal from 160-190 khz and like in england there is talk of a 136 khz band here too |
Taz
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 7:23 pm: |
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how long is a full wave? |
707
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 8:33 pm: |
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It would be cool if all of us forum regulars were to set up a lowfer transmitter, using a common callsign prefix followed by two initials and the state abbreviation. |
bruce
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 8:59 pm: |
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1750 meters or about 5000 feet hey taz lets see how big beam would be director elm = 4700 foot, drv el=5000 ft, reflector el=5200 ft and a boom of 2000 ft and if you go hozontal it would have to be at least 1200 ft up remember all the talk about rotors ????? |
bruce
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 9:06 pm: |
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cool idea 707 someone find a common circuit we could build????? |
Lowferguy
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 10:28 pm: |
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Well my lowfer beacon is on 24 7. I run around 700mw to 1 watt most times. You can find radios already built for 1750mtrs but they are sorta pricey. Early morn or late eve are best to hear my beacon. I Have had people hear me at about 1000 miles away. Again that is 190 kcs . |
Lowferguy
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 11:05 pm: |
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I will find the plans if anyone wants them |
707
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 11:56 pm: |
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I found a few plans on the web, even a PC card that has cw keyer and transmitter all in one with BNC output jack. |
bruce
| | Posted on Thursday, March 21, 2002 - 4:52 am: |
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lowferguy im fireing up the dx-70 on 190khz recive ill be looking for you.... now to unpack my stuff |
Lowferguy
| | Posted on Thursday, March 21, 2002 - 10:29 pm: |
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Cool I am on now 191kcs sendung slow cw with my address in case anyone hears me It is 1030estpm now 10/21/02 |
Triplecguy
| | Posted on Thursday, March 21, 2002 - 10:39 pm: |
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Does anybody know anything about the military using Extremely Low Frequency (ELF)? I guess it is significantly lower than 1750khz. I saw it in a movie where it was used to communicate with submerged submarines. The submarine would extend a very long wire antenna behind it to receive an encrypted signal from the Naval communications center in West Virginia I think. Sounds cool even if it's not true.
Dan |
bruce
| | Posted on Friday, March 22, 2002 - 4:55 am: |
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yes 25 years ago i worked in defence electronics on a project that used 10-20 khz what you heard is true the frequencys are so low earth cant stop them that is why you can talk to the subs |
Lowferguy
| | Posted on Friday, March 22, 2002 - 1:43 pm: |
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Also it takes about 30 min to send one cw letter. |
Taz
| | Posted on Friday, March 22, 2002 - 3:22 pm: |
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haha, why? |
bruce
| | Posted on Friday, March 22, 2002 - 6:48 pm: |
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because he is prossing signal to recover it from under the noise a group of hams just crossed the alantic doing just this extreamly low speed CW
neet idea just like the noise blanker ckts these guys use cool stuff |
Lowferguy
| | Posted on Friday, March 22, 2002 - 11:30 pm: |
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One wave length at this low of a freq is a thousand miles long.(or more) |
Tech181
| | Posted on Friday, March 22, 2002 - 11:57 pm: |
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Lowferguy,
What kind of antennas do you guys use? I recall seeing a picture of some lowfers winding copper wire on what looked like a large wooden spool to be used as a loading coil.
Steve
Tech181
Tech181@copperelectronics.com |
Lowferguy
| | Posted on Saturday, March 23, 2002 - 5:21 pm: |
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My antenna is about 500 turns og 12ga wraped on a big wooden spool then I feed it into the ground with 8 equal spaced radial arms made from 10ft long ground rods. |
bruce
| | Posted on Saturday, March 23, 2002 - 9:32 pm: |
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181 i saw one photo showing a guy winding his loading coil on a 55 gal drum NOW THATS A LOADING COIL! |
Tech181
| | Posted on Sunday, March 24, 2002 - 12:08 am: |
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Lowferguy,
Not a cheap hobby to get into I imagine. It's gotta cost a fortune to buy all that wire. Nor receive on your beacon by the way. I will keep trying, but i am getting so much interference from Lord knows what, all I get is white noise.
Bruce,
No doubt!
Steve
Tech181
Tech181@copperelectronics.com |
Radiodude
| | Posted on Sunday, March 24, 2002 - 6:59 pm: |
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It is very tuff to hear me but keep tying and you will hear it. Well the wire was a gift from a friend that worked for the city I live in. and he also gave me the wood spool. I am going to break the rules and up my pwr to 4watts for one day only starting Monday 3/25/02 at 6aest till 6a 3/26/02. I hope you can hear me. I have a special QSL card printed to all that hear my beacon |
Taz
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 02, 2002 - 4:37 am: |
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GET THIS, ACCORDING TO THE OFFICAL MARCONI WEBSITE, THE FREQUENCY THAT SUBMARINES USE TO COMMUNICATE IS 20,000 METERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
GAMMA RAYS ARE AT 100000000000 METERS. THAT IS THE HIGHEST FREQUENCY WAVES THAT HUMANS USE ACCORDING TO THE OFFICIAL MARCONI WEBSITE.
GAMMA RAYS ARE PRODUCED BY EXPLODING STARS AND NUCULAR EXPLOSIONS.
CRAZYNESS!!!!! |
bruce
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 02, 2002 - 10:06 am: |
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Ha is THAT where we get 20,000 leagues under the sea! |
Taz
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 02, 2002 - 1:17 pm: |
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hehehe |
707
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 03, 2002 - 5:57 pm: |
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Taz- actually, Gamma Rays are very High frequency, Short wavelength at the opposite end of the spectrum as opposed to VLF like subs use.
By the time you get to the gamma-ray regions of the EM spectrum, wavelengths have become too tiny to think about any more. So scientists usually refer to these photons by their energies, which are measured in electron volts. |
Taz
| | Posted on Thursday, April 04, 2002 - 1:06 am: |
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Thats what the site said. look at it for your self |
707
| | Posted on Thursday, April 04, 2002 - 9:08 pm: |
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It says gamma rays, at a wavelength of LESS than .000000000001 meters, or about 1 hundred-billionth of a meter, are the highest frequency waves we use. |
Taz
| | Posted on Thursday, April 04, 2002 - 10:09 pm: |
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THE HIGHER THE METERS THE LOWER THE FREQUENCY
YOU HAVE IT BACKWARDS |
707
| | Posted on Friday, April 05, 2002 - 12:52 pm: |
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No need to shout Taz... I don't have it backwards at all. I believe you missed the negative exponent given in the example on the Marconi site. The graphic there is rather confusing though, because they chose to represent frequencies descending from left to right, i.e. beginning with the shortest wavelength. As for the exponent value, for example:
100,000,000,000 is 10 E 11 while
.000000000001 is 10 E -11, which is the number given on the site. It's kind of hard to see the - because of the Flash smoothing.
Here's a good site on scientific notation that will show you what I'm talking about.
http://www.ieer.org/clssroom/scinote.html
Also, here's a better representation of the radio to gamma ray spectrum:
http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/science/know_l1/emspectrum.html
I hope you take this in the spirit it is given. |
Taz
| | Posted on Friday, April 05, 2002 - 6:20 pm: |
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wasnt shouting forgot to take the caps off. the !!!!! mean i am shouting.
how can you figure that?
the higher the meter's the lower the frequency.
for example.
11 meters is at 27mhz
6 meters is at like 50-54mhz
I guess you didnt see my point.
Does anyone else have an opinion on this? |
Taz
| | Posted on Friday, April 05, 2002 - 6:23 pm: |
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another example
1750 meters is around 191khz like lofer guy was speaking about
1750 a high meters
191khz low frequency |
Taz
| | Posted on Friday, April 05, 2002 - 6:40 pm: |
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Hmm, must be incorrect to an exstent,
It must change at one point
i am backwards. |
Taz
| | Posted on Friday, April 05, 2002 - 6:46 pm: |
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My mind is slipping and I cant hold onto it anymore. but my statement does hold water for the 1750 meters deal.
I need to admit that I am only 14 and have been making a fool of myself. |
707
| | Posted on Friday, April 05, 2002 - 7:07 pm: |
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Whoops, I left off a zero too, actually 10 E 11 is 1000000000000. I had terahertz on the brain.
First, the term "hz" is an abbreviation of "Hertz" and just another way of saying "Cycles Per Second" or "cps".
Since we use the speed of light as a baseline for measurement of radio waves, keep in mind that Light travels at roughly 300,000 kilometers per second. A kilometer is 1000 meters, so light travels 300,000,000 meters in one second.(This is where we get the constant of 300 you originally posted)
Now...
Think of it as "how many cycles fit in that second" and how long, physically, is each cycle.
The more cycles in a second, the more frequency.("frequency" refers to how frequently the cycle occurs)
Lets compare a frequency of 100 cycles to 1000 cycles:
If 100 cycles fit in one second(100hz), then each of those cycles must be longer than each of the 1000 cycles(1000hz), which crams 1000 cycles into one second.
If you divide the 300,000,000 meters by the frequency of 191khz, which is 191,000 cycles per second, you get roughly 1570 meters. Likewise, if you use the constant formula, then:
300 divided by 1570 equals 0.191 million Hertz, which is the same as 191kHz.
You stated "GAMMA RAYS ARE AT 100000000000 METERS" That figure is incorrect. That's all I was trying to point out. |
707
| | Posted on Friday, April 05, 2002 - 7:08 pm: |
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You are not making a fool of yourself. I am glad to see you interested and amazed at the magic of radio. Keep learning. |
707
| | Posted on Friday, April 05, 2002 - 7:15 pm: |
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You are not making a fool of yourself. I am glad to see you interested and amazed at the magic of radio. Keep learning. |
bruce
| | Posted on Friday, April 05, 2002 - 8:57 pm: |
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Taz is that a new desese YOUNGTIMERS |
Taz
| | Posted on Friday, April 05, 2002 - 11:22 pm: |
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It must be bruce. Haha, youngtimers. Sounds like it fits the situation |
707
| | Posted on Saturday, April 06, 2002 - 12:14 am: |
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here's a good problem for you Taz-
you've heard of "1/4 wave", "1/2 wave", "3/4 wave" and "5/8 wave" CB antennas. If Lowferguys VLF beacon antenna is 50 feet long, what "wave" antenna is it on 191khz?
hint- 1 meter is roughly 3.3 feet. |
Taz
| | Posted on Saturday, April 06, 2002 - 3:19 am: |
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A meter is actually 3.281 feet
One-quarter wave: 246 divided by the frequency in MHz equals the length in feet
1287.9581151832460732984293193717 feet long.
Full wave: 984 divided by frequency in MHz equals the length in feet
5151.8324607329842931937172774869 feet long.
If you devide 5151.8324607329842931937172774869 103 times you get 50.017790880902760128094342499864 feet.
it is approxamatly 100th of a full wave. (103 to be exact)
50.017790880902760128094342499864 feet is
15.245422660499161287043155593957 meters
I dont know. Its 1:20 in the morning. Am I even close? |
707
| | Posted on Saturday, April 06, 2002 - 1:01 pm: |
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Here is where we can see how the regulations regarding antenna length for experimenters on VLF really puts a crimp on antenna efficiency.
Imagine trying to talk across town on a 1/103 wave CB antenna about 10 cm or 4 inches long. |
Taz
| | Posted on Saturday, April 06, 2002 - 5:49 pm: |
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I had a friend work it out and heres what he got
Well, I worked it out as 4900' for a full wave so it is a 1/98th wave ! |
Taz
| | Posted on Saturday, April 06, 2002 - 5:50 pm: |
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But that dosent sound right |
Taz
| | Posted on Saturday, April 06, 2002 - 6:30 pm: |
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did I get it right? |
SpliffMaster 420
| | Posted on Saturday, April 06, 2002 - 7:34 pm: |
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I rememember reading about a ham band in Europe or at least in the UK around 67 Khz.Does any have detrails? |
bruce
| | Posted on Saturday, April 06, 2002 - 9:55 pm: |
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yes there is one down there and at 136 also o cool photo i saw of a english ham on 136 KHZ moble he had a 55 gallion drum bolted to the roof of his car wound with 10's of turns of wire and a 12 foot wip sticking out of that ... even im not that nuts |
707
| | Posted on Sunday, April 07, 2002 - 1:39 am: |
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too bad these Lowfer xcvrs are not made anymore...
http://www.highnoonfilm.com/xmgr/updates/images/1750a.jpg |
Taz
| | Posted on Sunday, April 07, 2002 - 3:36 am: |
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Can anyone tell me if I am right? |
bruce
| | Posted on Sunday, April 07, 2002 - 12:04 pm: |
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corection that should have been 100's of turns of wire on a 55 gallion drum
taz 5540/f gives a 1/2wave in inches so 5540/.18 = 30,780 inches in a 1/2 wave or 2560 foot still to big to go moble with... unless your english |
707
| | Posted on Sunday, April 07, 2002 - 4:07 pm: |
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Taz-
you were right on the 1/103 |
Lowferguy
| | Posted on Sunday, April 07, 2002 - 7:03 pm: |
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Mine is 300 turns on a giant wooden spool . |
Taz
| | Posted on Sunday, April 07, 2002 - 7:57 pm: |
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Cool. Guess I am smarter than I thought. |
Taz
| | Posted on Monday, April 08, 2002 - 8:27 pm: |
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Hey 707, can you think of any more brian teasers? |
707
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 09, 2002 - 12:30 am: |
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Not at the moment, but you might find this link interesting...
http://www.altair.org/ |
Taz
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 09, 2002 - 9:46 am: |
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interesting |
