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de
| | Posted on Thursday, January 09, 2003 - 11:56 pm: | 
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You have just moved into your new home. You are talking to your neighbor telling him that this weekend you will be putting up your CB Antenna. The neighbor spits coke thru his nose and says didnt your read your covenants. You cannot put up an external antenna. No sir not even a flag pole is permitted.
What to do? Well knowing that any kind of an external antenna is better than a mag mount on a refrigerator what kind of external antenna would yuu put up and in what manner so that the neighbors could not see the antenna?
Well I know of several versions of the stealth antenna but my favorite is the paint pole special. Purchase an aluminum telescopic paint pole. One say 10 feet long at least and the cheapest paint roller you can Collect a few almost empty paint cans as well. Run your coax to the edge of the the back porch or other out of the way area either secured under the house of buried just below the surface of the dirt. Twist the paint roller on the pole and drill a small hole in the base of the aluminum pole. Screw into this hole a small stainless screw. Solder a small clip to the center conductor of the coax. Then measure out a quarter wave length of old telephone wire.
Here his the stealth part. Prop the paint pole against the house in the back yard. Clip the coax to the stailess screw. Twist the quarter wave lenghth of old telephone wire to the shield and streach it out either under the house or along the edge of the house. Stack one or two paint cans a foot or two away from the pole.
How to tune the paint pole. Well you vary the length of the paint pole (Longer or shorter). and just to make sure that you are making good physical contact between the aluminum sections, put a snort piece of brading between each section held in place securely using stainless pipe clamps or small screws or whatever you have around the homestead.
Step back what do you see if you leaned the paint pole on the back porch against the corner wall. You see a paint pole with come cans of paint. Thats all!!!!!
Late
DE |
152
| | Posted on Friday, January 10, 2003 - 10:16 am: |
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DUDE!!!!!!!!!!1
if you pay a •••• load of money for a peice of property you can do whatever the hell you want to with it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
PUT UP A 30 FOOT TOWER AN PUT A 11 ELEMENT BEAM UP MAN!!!!!!!!!!!
-152 |
bruce
| | Posted on Friday, January 10, 2003 - 12:28 pm: |
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152 WRONG even though i aggree totaly with you the deed restriction police have won in almost every court. The ARRL is tring to get the FCC to superceed them for ham antennas but sofar its been shot down. I know here in florida you will not win and here in this county several cases have been filed and the radio guy lost.
READ THE RESTRICTIONS BEFORE YOU BUY !!!!!!!!! |
Kb5lpa
| | Posted on Friday, January 10, 2003 - 2:23 pm: |
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Sad, but true. PRB 4720 is not dead. There are amateur radio operators in congress supporting this. It may help take power from H.O.A.'s as well as take some of the bite from C.C.R.'s.
Buyer beware! You may not get to have your antenna and tower. Just because you buy it, you may still not have control over it.
73 de KB5LPA |
707
| | Posted on Friday, January 10, 2003 - 2:44 pm: |
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There is nothing to keep you from:
a. use two lengths of metal flashing placed along the roof peak, in a dipole config, fed with black rg-8x.
b. same idea but use the diagonal lines of the roof to give you sort of an inverted V
c. if you have a nice tree, run your coax underground to the base of the trunk, then up to the middle of the tree where you have conveniently built either a vertical dipole or a loaded wire vertical.
d. Check the covenanant. If the the clause mentions "permanent" structure, then build a breakover swivel mount for a vertical and just put it down when not in use.
e. buy a "Screwdriver" antenna and tuner, mount to the side of your chimney or in the tree.
There are plenty of ways to get around these covenants. Last resort would be to use VERY thin magnet wire of a random long lenghth from the peak to a tree, then use tuner and don't run over about 300w |
CM 3885
| | Posted on Friday, January 10, 2003 - 3:18 pm: |
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Thats freaking BS man!!! Although i dont like the FCC they need to superseed this thing and get the ball rolling on the issue!!!!
One more freedom lost..... |
de
| | Posted on Friday, January 10, 2003 - 6:40 pm: |
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UPDATE....
Congress fails to act on house resolution....
Note in the opening paragraphs the statement that the FCC has opted to make Congress make the call rather than themselves. Remember who your senator is and and drop them a polite line asking them to support the inclusion of PRB 1 into the FEDERAL law.
Congress Completes Legislative Business; CC&R Bill Likely Left Behind
NEWINGTON, CT, Oct 17, 2002--Now that Congress essentially has completed its legislative business, the CC&R bill, HR 4720, is not likely to see action this year--although it technically remains alive until Congress formally adjourns. As Congress winds down and the election draws near, additional cosponsors also are unlikely at this point. ARRL President Jim Haynie, W5JBP, said, however, that he's happy with how the bill fared since its introduction last May. He emphasized that the League remains committed to a congressional solution to the issue of deed covenants, conditions and restrictions as they apply to Amateur Radio antennas.
"This is really important for Amateur Radio all across the United States, and the League is committed to try to get this bill passed," Haynie said. "This is probably the most important thing the League has done in a long time." Haynie said that as more new housing developments are built that include CC&Rs, the harder it will be for hams to erect outdoor antennas.
Following its introduction, HR 4720 attracted 30 cosponsors during this congressional session. No more votes will occur until a post-election "lame duck" session, starting November 12, to complete several appropriations, homeland security and other high-profile bills. Another lame duck session in December also is possible.
"The main thing we wanted was to find out if we had some good support on The Hill--and obviously we do--and whether the bill was styled correctly," Haynie said.
With no further progress likely on the bill this year, the effort to secure a congressional solution to the CC&R issue will start all over again when the new Congress convenes in January. Haynie says the measure will be reintroduced and get a new number, and the effort to garner cosponsors once again will start from scratch. Just when the measure will be put into the House legislative hopper depends on when Congress reconvenes. The bill's reintroduction could come as early as January or as late as March.
Haynie said he expects current HR-4720 cosponsors to stick with the bill, provided they are re-elected in November. "The idea then is to really push for additional cosponsors and also for a sponsor in the Senate," Haynie said.
In an eleventh-hour initiative in late September, the bill's sponsor, Rep Steve Israel (D-NY) and the only two amateurs in the US House of Representatives--Mike Ross, WD5DVR (D-AR) and Greg Walden, WB7OCE (R-OR)--appealed in a letter to colleagues who had not already done so to agree to cosponsor the measure.
HR 4720 is aimed at providing relief to amateurs faced with private deed covenants, conditions and restrictions--CC&Rs--in erecting antennas. Called "The Amateur Radio Emergency Communications Consistency Act," the measure contains a single sentence: "For purposes of the Federal Communications Commission's regulation relating to station antenna structures in the Amateur Radio Service (47 CFR 97.15), any private land use rules applicable to such structures shall be treated as a state or local regulation and shall be subject to the same requirements and limitations as a state or local regulation."
The measure was referred to the House Telecommunications and Internet Subcommittee, to which Walden recently was appointed. It would require private land-use regulators--such as homeowners' associations--to "reasonably accommodate" Amateur Radio communication consistent with the PRB-1 limited federal preemption. PRB-1 now applies only to states and municipalities.
For more information, visit the HR 4720, The Amateur Radio Emergency Communications Consistency Act of 2002 page on the ARRL Web site. |
Chris142
| | Posted on Friday, January 10, 2003 - 8:45 pm: |
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What about hiding a 102' steel whip in a tree? Or if you have a tall tree an antron 99. |
DE
| | Posted on Friday, January 10, 2003 - 11:03 pm: |
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Re 707...
Flashing will work if the roof is dry. Rain may cause high SWR. But there is only one way to tell, try it. OHHH and one tip, if you are going to use flashing use copper flashing. That way you can solder pieces together making a good sold electrical connection. |
de
| | Posted on Friday, January 10, 2003 - 11:11 pm: |
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Re chris 142...
There ya go guys some good suggestions so far. Chris you might want to camo that antenna and the coax a little bit more by painting the antenna and the coax the color of the tree trunk itself. |
Karatebutcher
| | Posted on Saturday, January 11, 2003 - 12:13 pm: |
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Every place I have ever lived there has been a homeowners rule or ccr's. , in the Townhouse I had a 30 foot push up in the center of a tree, I pushed it up each night after dark, here at this house we have ccr's, I painted the big stick black, ran the coax along the side of the house , covered it with bark, ran it up an old and very large Oak tree, it has been there 5 years, I watch my hours of operation, after people go to work, not after 4pm, and not before 10;30 Am, I wish people in the neiborhood would give me the same consideration, then we could all have our toys. |
Sandbagger106
| | Posted on Saturday, January 11, 2003 - 3:27 pm: |
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I have to ask the question.....Why would a person who is interested in radios, or home shops, or lots of old cars ever buy in such a restricted housing development? I don't get it. Although I wouldn't live like that, I know plenty of people that do and they like not having the neighbors down the street painting their house purple and not keeping cars in the driveway. If you buy in such a place you need to abide by the rules you agree to, not try and change them after the fact. If you were unaware of such things and your realtor did not disclose them, that's another issue that would be delt with in court I suppose. If you think about it the restrictions probably do more good than harm, anyone who has had, bad, noisy, messy neighbors bring down their property value would most likley agree. It happened to me so I moved to a 3 acre place with few neighbors and no restrictions. I'm not wanting to start an argument and won't repond to one but it seems simple, don't buy in a place that you can't do your own thing. Cheers all, sb106 |
Karatebutcher
| | Posted on Saturday, January 11, 2003 - 8:59 pm: |
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Sandbabber most of us un kept radio operators, have wifes who want to live in the nicer parts of town where the houseing restrictions are very strict, but some of us husbands have to make them happy, and then have to hide our hobby, |
Kb5lpa
| | Posted on Saturday, January 11, 2003 - 9:03 pm: |
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Sometimes the H.O.A. police make things miserable when they get on a power trip. It is a good thing to keep the neighborhood neat and tidy. When done properly a H.O.A. can be beneficial,especially when one looks to sell in order to move.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Antennas, while beautiful to a radio operator, sometimes fall as an eyesore to others. If HB1 and PRB 4720 get any backing, there may well be a "reasonably accomodate" statement in future deed/documents. There will have to be some concessions in order to make it fly. I would bet any first drafts would have vague wording so individuals and the associations can argue it out. The upside is that if ever won,radio operators may get some help. Downside, the associations will have to get very familar with rules concerning radio/antenna.Height restrictions could be a problem. Also, expect them to be very aware that local law enforcement officials can stop operations of radio equipment that may be causing intereference to home systems including vcr,alarms,phones,stereos, etc. Even though those type of things are supposed to be ok with reference to rf. Guess who will be told to knock it off???Just my thoughts on this.
73 de KB5LPA |
Peddler
| | Posted on Saturday, January 11, 2003 - 9:20 pm: |
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Sandbagger;
Why do people buy houses next to an airport or a race track (knowing they are there) then complain about the noise.
There are just too many bleeding heart do-gooder groups that will jump on a deal like this and make a federal case out of it. |
bruce
| | Posted on Saturday, January 11, 2003 - 9:38 pm: |
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Here in florida one place said NO american flage could be flown untill a vietnam vet flew his after sept 11. You know the old saying the poop hit the impeller! But common sence says if they say no look for another place.
Bruce |
DE
| | Posted on Saturday, January 11, 2003 - 11:32 pm: |
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I have never heard about this racetrack thing but Airports I can talk about. Per the FCC regs the height of antennas gets less and less as you near the airport. That is just to avoid the jets attempting to make landings on your antenna structure.
What the others were talking about were restrictions against external antennas because the it makes the neighborhood look bad. Some other common restrictions are no parking of vehicles in the front of the house or where the parked vehicle is visible from the street. Another goodie is that the house must cost a certain minimum amount of money. |
Chris142
| | Posted on Sunday, January 12, 2003 - 9:17 pm: |
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Maybe you could cut a groove in a tree and mount a 102 steel whip in the groove. The tree would eventully grow around the whip! I would like to watch the security dudes look for that antenna. Ha! Run some wire down the branches for a ground plane too.
Might notice the coax going to the tree tho! LOL
Sorry just thinking to my self. |
CM 3885
| | Posted on Sunday, January 12, 2003 - 10:45 pm: |
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Makes me glad i live in a small one stoplight midwestern hick town were i can do whatever the **** i want to and not get evicted or admonished!!! Ive lived here all my life and ive pretty much done what ive wanted to (with in legal reason) and nobody has lifted an eyebrow ever!!! Id never live in a negiborhood with covenats.
GOD BLESS AMERICA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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bruce
| | Posted on Monday, January 13, 2003 - 4:37 am: |
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cm ...... Pinellas Park Florida where i ran my little league teams for handicapped kids is a strange place. We could tell the Deed restricted places by the fact that the pick up trucks and boats parked on the frount lawn had 102 inch wips and working motors....... I guess its just how you value things.....
bruce |
CM 3885
| | Posted on Monday, January 13, 2003 - 3:16 pm: |
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Its not a wonder here in the midwest people are buying up farmland and building houses out in the middle of a field. its becasue they dont want the BS associated with deed restrictions!!! |
Scrapiron63
| | Posted on Monday, January 13, 2003 - 6:01 pm: |
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Buying a place without restrictions is not that rosey all the time. If I was buying a small piece of property, say a lot up to several acres, I would look for some with restrictions, not so severe that you couldn't even have a tower or antenna, but without some restrictions, it can be hell. The guy that buys the next 5 acres or so might decide to have a junkyard, maybe a chicken farm, or ask the guys in NC about the hog farms, it's almost unlivable for miles away. The hog farms do require a fairly large piece of property, but in lots of states, like where I live, they can buy 15-20 acres and cover it with chicken houses, as long as they have a place to dispose of the waste, and thats no problem as someone is always wanting the litter for pastures. If you've every smelled a chicken house with about 150,000 grown chickens in august, you know where I'm coming from. |
DeadlyEyes
| | Posted on Monday, January 13, 2003 - 6:44 pm: |
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RE 3885...
It is not a matter of location. It is a matter of status. You see most private covanants are to assure that certain standards are adnered to. Cost of house. Square feet of living area. Where to put the garage. Can you have a pet. No ugly external antennas allowed (sorry you have to use underground cable and utilities). All sorts of good restrictions.
So why live in a restricted antenna neighborhood? Because your wife says so and she is the one you have to sleep with! |
Topten
| | Posted on Monday, January 13, 2003 - 8:11 pm: |
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And people have to PAY these power hungry little dictators too?
Not Me... |
Karatebutcher
| | Posted on Monday, January 13, 2003 - 8:38 pm: |
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DeadlyEyes I liked your last comment, and that is very true, all night, every night,and we are the boss, we are in control, [yes honey] not you D.E. |
Sandbagger106
| | Posted on Monday, January 13, 2003 - 10:15 pm: |
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Chicken farms, junkyards??????????? Don't they have zoning laws in NC? Yikes!!! Here in Ca. you buy residential zoned property if you don't want to be next to a farm. sb106. |
bruce
| | Posted on Monday, January 13, 2003 - 10:32 pm: |
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Here in florida the zoneing people where brown shirts..... No kidding they feel and act like little gods STUPID things like a gardin shed but if you have the money your trailer park can look like .... anf as long at they get the tax money everything is fine ..... now off my soap box! |
Kb5lpa
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 14, 2003 - 10:16 am: |
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While it is probably not high on the list as to whether an antenna may be erected when one moves into a new home, there are ways to be careful with a purchase.
If one buys in a new sub-division,you can count on CCR/HOA to be a part of your final purchase package. In this instance, you have to be creative in order to get on the air. Bill Orr has a book"Wire Antennas" that has several stealth hf antennas in it. I mean how un-patriotic does the HOA have to be that an inspiring radio operator could not hide an hf antenna plus radials using a flag pole? Wires around the eves are another possibility. If there happens to be a utility easement at the back of your property and trees are present,it is very easy to hide an antenna against the trees. Not a monster antenna mind you, but wire dipoles and verticals are easy to conceal in that background.
If you are a "Fix it" person, look at an older home. Many times because of the age of the property, there will not be CCR/HOA to deal with. Check around the neighborhood. You can get an idea about the clientel by going to a local school and scheduling an appointment with a counselor. I mean if you have kids and you might be moving in, you want to know about the neighborhood right? If not, they will never know. Sneaky, but effective. The info is cheap but it is to your benefit. Look closely, you can pick up much info by riding around and looking. (Act like a tourist,ask questions to the locals. You might be able to slip in a questions about tv antennas,cable,satellites,radio antennas[hint].)
Sometimes you just get lucky. My neighborhood is a nice one. Built in the 80'/90's by Texaco for families, there are no restrictions here yet our house is in good shape. Nothing out of the ordinary except there are no HOA/CCR to deal with. I did ask since we were in an apartment before and I was not on the air anyway. All I got was "as long as it does not detract from the look of the neighborhood". Carte'Blanche to put up an antenna. Did so right quickly.A 40 foot pole with a vertical plus wires that are an antenna but look like part of the guy system. I simply tell folks I am a shortwave listener and mention the BBC and that I can listen to most of the European news and that is about it. Never have I had a complaint. (Proper grounding and filters are a must. Everyone should do that anyway. Good radio practice)
These are some ideas that may help anybody that has to move into an unfriendly radio environment.
73 de KB5LPA |
CM 3885
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 14, 2003 - 3:45 pm: |
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If i had a wife and she told me i had to live in a resricted area id tell her "you know were the door is!" LOL |
de
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 14, 2003 - 6:53 pm: |
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Who gets the gold mine and who gets the shaft?
If you are a General Class ham living in a restricted area you can get by with a simple hidden dipole or similar antenna even with 100 watts and even better if you run a full legal 1.5 K amp (to compensate for the loss of antenna gain).
But if you are a CB op you get the royal shaft. Legally you can run only 4 watts. And if you are in competition with the big guns running big beams and you are running a no gain dipole or such then you are just flat out shafted most of the time.
Hmmm, too dang many PC society police in this world if ya ask me. Heck that tall antenna is doing your neighborhood a big favor. Any lightening will be attracted to it first. |
bruce
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 15, 2003 - 4:43 am: |
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DE
The fact remains you are still free not to buy in a place like that. The PC police will be their no matter what we do ... You know the same people who tell my my boy is not retarded he is CHALANGEND.... HELLO i live with him 24 hours a day !!!!. They will always know what s best for you right down to the color of any antenna you put up. At my mom' place i had a 40 foot tower that went up in the early 70's well it was in the woods.... come the 80's they had built houses there. My sister has someone come to the door from the home owners and inform her that it had to go. Hummm i informed them it would stay to a huricane took it down .... alina did in mid 80's. I can understan the need to keep things in check but if i buy a house i would kinda like to enjoy it.
Bruce |
Triplecguy
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 15, 2003 - 2:34 pm: |
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Hey yall!! I heard of a community in Arizona I believe that was built around the love of flying small air craft. Instead of a garage on your house you had a small hanger for a Cessna or similar aircraft. The streets in the development were actually taxi ways for the small planes so you could actually taxi out of your "garage" to the runway and fly wherever you wanted. Neat concept, and if we all had Bruce's ( ha ha) money we could fly our own planes as well. But, think about having a development that was dedicated in the same way to amateur radio/CB. Where you could put up a 200 foot tower if you wanted and the home owners association worked with you, not against you, to help coordinate tower or antenna construction and could mediate any disputes with TVI or intermod. There could be specific codes about construction and appearance, with the focus being on safe and effective towers and antennas to really make the hobby fun for all who lived in the area. I would actually approach the arrl about helping to create such a community, but until they realize that America conists of more than New England I don't think we'll see anything like that out here in the West. Maybe you eastern'ers could get something like this going.
Just my 2 cents,
73's
DAN |
Bigbob
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 15, 2003 - 6:05 pm: |
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Why don't you all move to antrim county michigan?,you can erect a 200 foot tower if you want to,really relaxed zoning in most townships some none at all,kearny township is most restrictive all the rich people live there.I live in Central Lake village and have a 40' mast with a PDL2 one block from downtown and bruce we have a shortage of law enforcement officers with the sheriff's office,hint,hint.A lot of people here are florida transplants. |
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