| Author |
Message |
    
Allagator
| | Posted on Monday, July 21, 2003 - 11:21 pm: | 
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Im getting ready to move out to the country !
but im going to put my tower 130 foot !!!
and ideas on what will take the wind and still stay UP ????
Allagator |
mikefromms
| | Posted on Monday, July 21, 2003 - 11:49 pm: |
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Oh, I just recognize that you were saying beams. PTL II.
Mikefromms |
Tech808
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 22, 2003 - 1:03 am: |
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mikefromms,
The PDL II's and Moonrakers IV's were/are good antennas but, since they have been dis-continued for a couple years now, the part's for the PDL II as well as the MOONRAKERS are very hard to find.
I think Gator has a couple of them in his barn now that he needs parts for.
With the New Beams that are being made today I would suggest the MACO Beams or Signal Engineering(Quads). Depending on how much you want to spend.
Just my Thought's
Lon
Tech808 |
Bigbob
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 22, 2003 - 6:12 am: |
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GET a S.E. quad,100mph good enough?I'd like to see a test of a SE quad mounted to a truck and driven down the road at 100 mph and faster and videoed to see at what speed it begins to break up,barring contact with an overpass. |
David Lucas
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 22, 2003 - 6:59 am: |
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Got all kinds of Avanti / A.S. parts for the Moonraker/P.D.L.
Dave Lucas
david@ccr.net |
Tech808
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 22, 2003 - 9:29 am: |
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David Lucas,
I am sure Allagator and several other Forum Member's will make contact with you as he needs the Hubs and has posted several times with no results.
Lon
Tech808 |
Tech833
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 22, 2003 - 10:17 am: |
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If you have enough parts to build complete antenna kits, I'll bet 'Old Man Copper' would like to talk to you.
Signal Engineering beams will take 100 MPH winds. That, I can say with confidence. Mounting one to a truck and driving 100 MPH is not smart. Jay In the Mojave did it with his ground plane antenna in the salt flats of the Mojave desert. That's much different. |
mikefromms
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 22, 2003 - 10:55 am: |
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I owned a set of PDL II one time and they are nice set of beams. Good rejection and pretty easy to get up. Anyone not interested in the flat side and who take the time to find them, might consider the old Super Scanner beams. Had a set of them until I move from my hometown. They would work nicely up there at 130 feet and you wouldn't have to worry about the rotor freezing up.
mikefromms |
Bullet
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 22, 2003 - 11:06 am: |
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bigbob,
that would be a heck of a sight wouldnt it!
next time they run for a record in the salt flats well have to see if they wouldnt mind straping one of those to their car.haha
i can say though that my two,four and six element quads all have weathered some serious wind storms lately.
all three storms were reported as having 80mph+ winds and the one that toppled the tree was said to have had 100+ winds.
all servived without a hitch untill my neighbors tree took out the two element quad. it took a direct hit and now looks like a dead spider.
mater of fact the antron 99's whipped around more in the storms than the quads did. |
Bullet
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 22, 2003 - 11:34 am: |
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bigbob,
an after thought.
when i moved out here in the county, i didnt want to disasemble my 4 element quad for the move so i made a small plate with a solid bar welded to it so i could slip the mast pipe over it.
it bolts to the bumper of my truck were the ball hitch goes.
any how i sawed the mast down to were the bottom of the quad elements were just off the body of the truck and guyed the front of the beam to the front bumper of my truck..
god my wife was so imbarased she wouldnt ride in the truck with me. she took her car because she said she didnt want people to think we were doing this together...lol, cant help but laugh remembering back on this.
i remember her saying "your gona get pulled over with that thing like that!"
if this wasnt a small town,and the fact i must of just did at the right time or maybe they were just dumbfounded by the sight of someone doing something that stupid. they might have.
anyway i drove that thing like that about 15 mile to our house here. i got up to 60 a few times ,but
did 45-50 most the way.
i had to watch the trees along the road and try to avoid hitting them. god that was dumb.
and for all this i still ended up with having to redo the beam because of hitting a tree limb as i was about a mile from the house.
thought you'd get a kick out of that story.... my wife and brother in law still kid me about that. |
Bullet
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 22, 2003 - 12:20 pm: |
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bruce, 833,others,
i thought youd get a kick out of this web site.
this guy must be hanging out with the Jo Gunn boy's.
http://www.wwdx.org/skyking/skyking.htm
im into quads im sure you guy's figured that,and ive built the kind shown in that web page.
and they work fine for a antenna thats spliting between horz/vert. but at a loss to both polarizations as you would expect.
but its a easy and cheap way of getting both horz/vert for the least amount of cash,materials,and effort.
i call this style an "econo beam" cause its cheap and easy to make.
they on the other hand think its
"the most powerfull antennas ever!"
"the antenna that talks like an amplifier"!
"youll be able to "with 150watts" cover up those big stations running 2kw with this dynawhopping skyking antenna."
they'll talk fine, and do quite well actually for dxing were polorization fluctuations can occur. but locally ,watt for watt a well made quad or yagi of similar size will definity out perform it!
i know this because ive made 3 of these and test them against my 4 element quad. and the fellas i talk to say my 4 element quad out performed the six element quad thats polarization was "split in the middle so to speak".
to me thats not talking like an amplifier!
check out the price on those badboy's
id say its because the use an exotic BALIUM rf choke and silver wire that has special powers to give ya more rejection.
they look ok though except they dont like to use much fiberglass on the spreaders. thats got to choke performance abit.
i wouldnt pick on them if the claimes were closer to whats reasonable.
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Bigbob
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 22, 2003 - 5:42 pm: |
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"Cheap and easy"? my left foot! Signal Engineering is 12 percent cheaper and much better quality.And ease of construction couldn't be better. |
Tech808
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 22, 2003 - 6:17 pm: |
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Tech833, & Bigbob
I can attest to the Signal Engineering White Lightning 4 Element Quad standing up to 100+ MPH winds.
Very High Quality, Excellent Performance, Easy to Tune, Very Pleased with them.
Before Assembly I did follow Tech833's tip to coat all fiberglass spreaders with White Auto Body Primer to help protect from the elements over the years.
The only thing I did that was not in the instructions was pre-drill holes in spreaders for screws, and paint spreaders per Tech833's tip.
Still up and working great! 
Lon
Tech808 |
bruce
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 22, 2003 - 6:44 pm: |
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GOLLY! and i thought JOGUNN could never be equaled for pure HOCKYPUCKS ..... As for balums the old W2AU has been around 50 years and there is no better ......Silver wire ?????? WHY ?????
Sounds like hipe to me! WELL AT LEAST THEY DON'T CLAME AUDDDIO GAIN! |
Bigbob
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 22, 2003 - 7:44 pm: |
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I the elements are exactly the same length (copper/silver) for a given antenna there is no diff. just a gimmick.If you can check the impedence of each in free space,I doubt there is enough diff.to justify the cost,besides copper oxidises and forms a protective coating that is not as soluble as the tarnish produced by silver, sooner or later the silver dissolves and you're left with plain copper,more importantly if the coating stays shiny it is probably tin,which is not bad at all cheaper than silver,second only to gold in it's ability to ward off corrosion,higher conductivity than copper and takes on coppers ductility when used as plating,it takes only a very thin layer to achieve this.But,ugh,who wants to admit they have tin wires on their antenna. |
Allagator
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 22, 2003 - 8:49 pm: |
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WOW so if i just put a wire up it mite work !!!!! lol !!!
just jokeing !!!
I think i mite go with the m108,m106 or just fix the 2-PDLII and stack them !!!!!
Lon !
I bought a big box of hubs at a yard sale for 10 bucks !!!!!GOOD BUY i think !!
David Im sorry i never emailed you back on them hubs but i found a good buy so i got it !! but ill keep passing it long to who ever needs parts for them antenna's !!!!
Thanks for all the info guy's !!!!!
Allagator |
Bullet
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 23, 2003 - 1:20 am: |
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a closer look at the KING.
now theyre saying that 40% of this will be vert and 60% horz. so.....
2 element quad 7ft boom around 7.34db
vert gain, 2.93db
horz gain, 4.40db
17ft 4 element quad around 10.66db
vert gain, 4.26db
horz gain, 6.40db
30ft 6 element quad around 13.76db
vert gain, 5.50db
horz gain, 8.25db
this of coarse is ball park figures from a formula for figuring gain.
but it confurms my statement about the performance of a regular 4 element quad being much stronger than the 6 element "econo beam" types as i call them.
matter of fact my 2 element vertical colinear array at 60+ft can rival the performance of this type of 6 element beam at 30ft (my test tower) at least locally.
skip conditions it seems is were this beam shines over the colinear array.
i hope anyone that goes to buy one of those happens along this forum and reads this first they could save them selves a few hundred bucks.
they'd be much much better off with a signal engineering beam, or a maco. |
Sixkiller505
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 23, 2003 - 12:02 pm: |
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RAT'S!! I THINK MY SIGNAL ENGINEERING SKY HAWKS WILL TALK CIRCLES AROUND THERE DOWN AND DESPRATES.(OR WHAT EVER THEY CALL THEM). AND BY THE WAY 808(LON)THANKS FOREVER AND EVER FOR HELPING ME MAKE THAT CHOICE.BEST BEAMS I'VE EVER OWN(AND THEY ARE LIGHT!!)they even called to see if they are working out for me.(noboby has ever done that!!!) sixkiller505 |
Tech808
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 23, 2003 - 2:12 pm: |
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Sixkiller505,
You are welcome! Iam very glad you are HAPPY with them.
Anthony, at SE is a pleasure to deal with, and his product's are # 1 in my book.
My White Lightning's are by far the best performing Full Quad Beams I have ever had.
Performance is Excellent!
And at only 20lbs no major hassle to put up. (I have mine at 56')
I cannot take all of the credit as it was Tech833 that informed / guided me to the SE Beams.
Take care and have a great week.
Lon
Tech808
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Bullseye
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 23, 2003 - 9:07 pm: |
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HEY LON Just wondering I have a rohn 25G tower at 35ft. free standing with about 750 lbs. of concrete on the bottom in Central Florida about 35 miles from the Brevard County coast. How would you feel about a White Lightning on this tower? Is this OK ie safe or would I be best off with a Super Hawk? I also have heard that the 2-4 element beams have little to no rejection (side or back) so I have been thinking my Alpha V58 will be just as good instead of putting up what would be,virtually,an "omni-directional" beam. Just out of ignorance does the SH have a driven element and a reflector or a driven and a director? |
Allagator
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 23, 2003 - 11:00 pm: |
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hey Bullseye !! I ran a maco y quad you 4 years !
and it was a what ya would call a cheep pole !!
30 FOOT OF TV MAST PIPE but some good guy wires and it was good !!!
with your tower i wouldnt worry about it but be safe and add a few wires just to be on the safe side !!
Hope it helps !!!!!!!!!!!
Allagator |
Bullet
| | Posted on Thursday, July 24, 2003 - 4:37 am: |
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bullseye,
if you have that tower in anywhere near a yard of concrete youll be fine with a lightning 4 from SE.
ive got a 34ft long six element quad on 30ft of normal HD tv tower thats burried 4ft in the ground
and filled back with just dirt. (temp test tower)
and this things seen 3 storms with 80mph winds and 1 storm with 100mph winds and its fine. im quite confident youll be in super shape.
on the rejection rear and side....
its true if an antenna's been souly made for high gain and is 4 elements and less, it will have a more poor front to back ratio. its a trade off!
the first 4 element i bought was like this,
talked great but the back door was wide open. it had a element spacing of /80/70/80/. i kept the boom length the same(20ft) just changed the spacing to give the beam some good front to back as well as good gain. /68/72/96/ works pretty good.
front to back and gain also depends on the size of wire used and its length its cut to for each of the wire elements. it can get as deep as you ever want to go....
i know youll see 1030 for the reflector and 1005 for the driven and either 950 or 900 for the directors.
ive seen some directors that diminish in size as they go as well.
these are the "common" numbers used to divide the freq into to give element lengths.
ive seen element spacings go from .1 to .3 wavelentghs.
this combination above is what most of those on line calculators for quads use.like i said its what youll see over and over again.
and will work just fine.
but its not the "only" or even the best ones to use for what you want, just the most mainstream.
i can turn my 6 elem 30 degrees off center of bare foot stations 5-8 miles away and they disapear.
i can even turn broad side of my most active cb neighbor 3miles to the west and he's gone. he's like a s1 in the rear of the beam,sides have more rejection.
on a small boom 4 element quad like 15-16 ft moonraker stock spacings work ok. /65/56/65/
quads are wonderfull antennas!!
and thier is a perfect combination of element lenths and spacings out thier that will give you good front to back at a high gain peak.
ya just got to spend alot of time with your nose in a book to find it and alot of time tunning and playing with them to make what you read work.
ive been into these type of beams for 5 years now.
ive ran some small quads in the past but never took the time to study them like i have these last 5 years.
i feel i can build a better quad than i can buy on the market. ive got the doc's on about most of them and they all fall in what i call the mainstream.
but i do like SE and maxgain antennas.
im sure i bored you enuff
later bullet |
fdirsh
| | Posted on Thursday, July 24, 2003 - 7:01 am: |
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Jo Gunn Man! |
bruce
| | Posted on Thursday, July 24, 2003 - 10:46 am: |
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JOGUNN ???????? WHO WOULD BUY A JOGUNN when there are REAL antennas out there |
RCI 2990
| | Posted on Thursday, July 24, 2003 - 9:57 pm: |
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Throw up a moonraker 4 (if you can find one) and be happy wit it like i am!! I get out all over with mine up here in the north part of the Hoosier state!! |
Kattracker
| | Posted on Thursday, July 24, 2003 - 10:32 pm: |
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I tried the e-mail address for David Lucas regarding the beam parts. His e-mail address seems to have a problem coming back as rejected. Any one else try to contact him?
Kattracker |
Bullet
| | Posted on Friday, July 25, 2003 - 2:20 am: |
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i just re read the first post,
130 feet what kind of tower are you putting up?
ive got so many radio buddys that have been at and over 100 feet and they all come down!
and they guyed the heck out of them and did a nice job ect, but when you got a 6 element or an big 8 up thier that high it puts alot of twisting torque on that tower. most used rohn 25g tower and one fella just used the HD tv tower.
most of them now have settled in the 50-80 ft area.as they just got tired of putting one back up about once a year.
i want to go up to 100 foot as well but im not going to try it with a 12 inch face tower. its too flimsy that high.
ive disected some tower and am slowly fitting and welding it back up to have a face of 24 inches.
it going pretty slow as i dont get much time to work on it. ive got 1 section fitup and welded together and another section just fit up and tacked together for welding. 8 more to go!
i dont think im going to get it done this summer liked id planed on.
rohn 45g would be nice to use.
maybe 833 will give us both some good ideas to keep a large beam up that high without it crashing to the earth. im sure he has a fix as this is up his alley. |
Buck
| | Posted on Friday, July 25, 2003 - 12:40 pm: |
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Kattracker....try putting a period in the place of the comma....If you still have trouble I will try to get ahold of him. He lives just up the road from me.
Buck |
RCI 2990
| | Posted on Friday, July 25, 2003 - 11:15 pm: |
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I have my beams up only 40' but up here in northern Indiana it is flat so i dont need a huge tower or anything. I still get out good though at 40'.. |
Bigbob
| | Posted on Friday, July 25, 2003 - 11:34 pm: |
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I saw a post in here somewhere with pictures of a 150' freestander about 1000 cubic yards of concrete 4000 pounds of re-rod for an anchor,I believe the block was 25' by 25' by 8' and the tower had a triangular 8'wide base.HUGE!Just a hammers tower,wow. |
