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Mudduck
| | Posted on Friday, August 01, 2003 - 11:50 pm: | 
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How many time has an antenna restriction turned a once beautiful shack, a desk(s) full of rigs, amps, mics, tuners, and related toys into a closet full of old equipment? All too often with our once great shack broken up in the closet, we fool ourselves with the false hope that some day..... some day we'll be able to sneak some kind of antenna up. Perhaps a dipole or some kind of wire. Maybe you belive you can load up the rain gutter (sure, you'll get out - NOT). "I know!", you say to yourself, "I'll run mobile!". But the HR2510 no longer fits in the new Accord the way it did in the Crown Vicky. Besides, the (X)YL would just LOVE a mag mount K40 on the new car. Right?
Being the radioheads that we are, we keep on believing. We keep on buying new rigs. And where do they go? In the closet. Some day.....Sure.
After almost 10 years, I've come to the bitter realization that my some day just may not come.
My FT-757, now DOA from sitting in the closet for so long, MAN, does that rig have HISTORY. And what about my HR2510s, both of them?. The loudest rigs with my D-104. The Ameriton 811 and the Ten-Tec tuner. One is uglier than the next, but I could load up a coat hanger and still get out. Also the collection of dual-band mobiles and HTs. And the new "small" rig, my Magnum 257 that I still have not used after two years.
I talk to my radio friends, and it's always like "The 757? Oh yeah, thats a good rig - no you don't want to sell that. 2510? thats a good rig too - no you don't want to sell that either. The magnum 257?....". You get the idea. But they're not their rigs. And it not their closet.
I could sell some select pieces, and maybe get a few bucks out of the deal. But while the Lincoln is now available (for $300), that has and may not always be(en) the case. Sometimes a rig is hard to replace because of its uniqness and its ability to do what it does.
I could use the money, to buy more radios. What would you do?
73
Skip |
Alsworld
| | Posted on Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 12:42 am: |
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Skip,
you obviously have a love for the airwaves and maybe have forgotten just how much. Your hanging onto such nice pieces of equipment says it all.
Yeah, maybe a hidden antenna won't necessarily make you the baddest station in the nation, but why give up all hopes of getting back on the airwaves due to some antenna restrictions? Alternatives my friend can rekindle your love of radio. You have all of the expensive stuff, the antenna is the cheapest of all.
Got trees? Hidden veritcal. Got lots of trees? More possibilities. No trees? No problem, we go horizontal across the roof. Are flagpoles acceptable? Even more possibilities.
Do not give up man. You posted here for a reason, and that was to have someone kick your butt (motivate) into getting back into radio. You have it all, but just need some help with a small problem. We can help both with motivation and ideas, and even keep the cost real low.
We only live once, if radio is your passion (which it obviously is because you are here), then never surrender. Just get smarter and sneakier.
We are here to help.
Alsworld |
Bullet
| | Posted on Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 1:21 am: |
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one could, if it means that much to you (as it would me) move to a location free of resrictions. |
Mudduck
| | Posted on Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 1:35 am: |
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Thanks for your encouraging words Al.
But my situation is really a lost cause. No usable trees. No rain gutter. No roof access. No attic. No good exposure. First floor. RF dead spot. And the far corner of town, so no local coverage.
My solution? I've gone portable with an FT-817 and a collection of portable antennas. (http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/ft817). I'm not a QRPer at heart and I know that this is not a QRP crowd. But an FT-817 is the most fun that you will ever have with 5 watts. DX all over the world. Battery powered too.
As far as my collection goes - I'm in a darned if you do - darned if you don't situation. Great, not always easily replacable rigs - but they're just collecting dust. Some of the rigs that I have first turned on in the almost 10 years, like the FT-757 and TRC-474, have gone bad from just not being used.
I guess they just feel unloved. Which is of course not true. I just can't take them out.
So my question remains. What would you do?
73
Skip
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Bullet
| | Posted on Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 1:43 am: |
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i was almost afraid to click on this topic.
but was relieved to see we were talking about radio's......hahaha |
Bluesman
| | Posted on Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 2:14 am: |
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Move, MOVE!~~~~...... Did I say move? Can YOU say MOVE? |
de
| | Posted on Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 2:54 am: |
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Got trees....
Alsworld is absolutely correct.
Hang that antenna in a tree. Paint it the color of the limbs of course to camoflage it. Bury the coax in some pvc pipe in the ground and run it up the side of the tree where no one can see it. Use the mini 8 coax and like your antenna paint it the color of the tree trunk. |
Barefoot
| | Posted on Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 5:48 am: |
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Mudduck, I think you and I have the same closet!!I run an indoor Firestick antenna and the new silver Accord will never see an antenna. I have a new 2950DX and two Magnum 257's in the closet along with about four or five new mics. Keep hoping someday to move to that house on a hill!! |
Buck
| | Posted on Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 7:15 am: |
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Amen Al.....Al is right skip....There are endless possibilities out there for hidden antennas. You may not be able to run tons of power but you should be able to get out good and when the conditions are favorable you should be able to talk with the best of them. The most important thing is to enjoy the hobby.
Buck |
Knight Ranger
| | Posted on Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 9:08 am: |
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darn this sounds like my situation too hehe. Lord forbid the XYL lets me put an antenna on the new Ford Tarus. I lost the ability to put up an antenna where I moved to here in florida. Had to leave the60 ' crank up tower and the beams in virginia. Moved here to an apartment ground level. I still hope one day I will be able to break out the rci 2995dx 2 rci 2959dx's, heathkit sb 200 and 220, alinco and the kenwood ect. But I do as Billy Joel sings Keep The faith! Somehow some way I will get back on the air!
Good luck my friend. |
Simon
| | Posted on Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 9:17 am: |
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As I said once before I installed for a friend a multi-element co-linear array UNDER his apartment (antenna was abt 2ft above ground). Worked like a champ and he worked somewhere around 80 countries on it. Of course you can always mount one in an attic. OK not as good as one outside but better than not having one.
Have a mast for TV antenna?? Try isolating and loading the guy wires. Did this when a teenager and parents limited me to 2 antenna (yeah a ham on VHF and HF?). Used the 4 guy wires as two more antennas and snuck another one in when I volunteered to paint the back deck (15ft above ground).
Dont look at this as an obstacle but as a chance toshow your ingenuity. Hidden antenna can be placed almost anywhere just use your imagination and I'm sure you'll find a solution. |
bruce
| | Posted on Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 12:53 pm: |
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he could get that CB DISH ANTENNA most deed restrictions allow up to a 24 inch dish! ..... I realy go with hide it in a tree or get a hollow flag pole........ |
Kattracker
| | Posted on Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 1:23 pm: |
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Mudduck,
Here is a idea, a rather far out one at that.
I personnaly do not know if this is possible as I am not a highly technical person when it comes to using the odd and unimaginable for antennas.
Any way a ham friend of mine has mentioned several times, that with a tuner he can use various things for antennas.
Therefore what is the possibility, with a tuner, using a portion of the buildings electrical system. Example, tapping in the neutral wire and or ground in your electrical outlet.
Of course you would have to stay away from the hot wire.
Like I said, far out idea. With what little I know about it, if it worked at all, I could see causing interference with television, radios and most anything plugged into the circuits.
Anyway, just thought I would shoot from the hip and see where it went.
Good Luck,
Kattracker |
Bigbob
| | Posted on Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 7:07 pm: |
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A ham friend of mine used a tuner and loaded up a graphite fish pole,he said it'd take 200 all day long but the resin in it tended to smoke with a killowatt,just an experiment.It worked well on ten meters,he got a lot of call backs working dx. |
Ironmask
| | Posted on Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 10:12 pm: |
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Kattracker
I don't intend an argument but one must remember that the neutral wire in the house is a return circuit and will get one in trouble. The same would go for the ground circuit if something went wrong.
You have a good idea of running a wire and tunning to it BUT, please don't use the house circuits.
I hope my words are taken as intended!! |
Xlaxx
| | Posted on Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 10:46 pm: |
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Bigbob-
That's pretty awesome!
XLAXX |
Alsworld
| | Posted on Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 10:56 pm: |
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Mudduck,
portable is always an option as you stated, but maybe when you are driving the car vs the (X)YL (sorry, I assume that means girlfriend or wife?).
What about an overhang? I'm thinking stealth antenna, thin wire, etc.
I've read about indoor antennas. I actually had contact with a guy that was running a Wilson 5000 inside his apartment (this was skip, long distance). I have no idea how he grounded it, but he swore he was barefoot and telling the truth about his antenna. He seemed just as surprised talking to me as I was him.
Of course, conditions played a wonderful factor there, but lets not give up hope yet.
What would I do? My intial thoughts are an indoor or stealth antenna (besides running mobile). That 817 is SWEET! I have read some pretty inovative ham sites out there dedicated to such a thing. A yahoo search under 'Stealth antennas" or "apartment antennas" may produce wonders.
When I got back into radio after a few year hiatus, I started by hooking up my Lincoln to a 102" stainless whip leaning up aginst the wall in my garage. SWR's were obviously too high to talk on, but I was hearing Japan, South American missionaries, Europe and such. This was with the end on the ground. As said, talking on that setup was impossible, but this was indoors. Indoor antenna, hmmmm. Let's keep working it.
I do not claim to have all the answers, but their is way too much experience on this board, and of course all of us with our own internet links that besides experience, we can give you some alternatives. It maybe QRP, but there is nothing wrong with that.
Keep the faith brother, we'll find something that can work for you.
Alsworld |
bruce
| | Posted on Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 11:00 pm: |
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Yea but bob did he catch any fish?
graphite IS a conductor .... just ask the golfers here in tampa who got hit by lighting ..... someone told them the clubs were safe in a storm.
When i was a kid in New York City a friend could not put up a antenna SO he used the clothline to reel out some #20 wire and tuned it with a Johnson tunner it worked GREAT ....untill people complained to his dad that they could see FIRE ! going up and down the clothline at night .... as he changed bands the voltage peek changes and the wire glowed in another spot! I still like a flag pole ....... |
Mudduck
| | Posted on Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 11:49 pm: |
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This is a pleasent surprise -
The original intent of my post was to ask which pieces to sell and which pieces to hold on to, for that "some day" that will not likely ever come.
I've either tried or thought of most of your suggestions. Even loaded up the shielding on the cable for the cable TV. While it would load up - it was all noise and no signal. Yes, I grounded the best I could.
Despite being in the corner of town, if I walk a quarter mile away from my building with my HT, I can hit, say, a dozen repeaters. From the parking lot, that number drops to less than half that. From inside the unit, I can hit the one repeater thats two miles to the exposure that I face.
I've given it 10 years of thought and had as many years of suggestions. - It's really that tough of a spot. Signals are at least 20db down. Even if I was to put up even a HamStick of sorts on a ground mounted mobile mast - it would be like calling CQ with my fingers in my ears. Even cellphones die. Thats why I've gone portable with my FT-817 and am trying to set up something reasonable in the mobile.
The HR2510 is way too big for the mobile. With the 817 precariously wedged between the seats for the highbands, it doesn't leave many "mounting" options for CB/11 meters. I have no interest in running HF in the mobile aside from 11m. A little K30 antenna, a smaller CB to replace my dead trc-474, hmmmm, maybe my 257, and about 100 watts or so. I'm thinking for mostly AM, as that suits my mood...today.
I greatly appreciate all of your stealth antenna suggestions and your positive additudes on my situation. But its come a time to hold 'em or fold 'em. What should I keep? What should I sell? What should I pick up?
73
Skip |
Rippedradio
| | Posted on Sunday, August 03, 2003 - 5:01 am: |
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mudduck i just got around this if you want to know how email me and i will share! 73's chris |
Keepitreal118
| | Posted on Sunday, August 03, 2003 - 6:05 am: |
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Mudduck I put my radio and 2 SnowCap amps in the trunk and a tri-mag mount with a 10k on my new ride. I told the wife if you don't like it don't drive it!!!! Go for it!!! |
Chris142
| | Posted on Sunday, August 03, 2003 - 11:30 pm: |
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Ya could run a diapole using your x-mas lights on yer house 
Be kinda directional! |
Triplecguy
| | Posted on Monday, August 04, 2003 - 11:29 am: |
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Just a thought, but with the use of a tuner, you could effectively load a metal window frame and use it, and if you attack the shield to one fram and the center to another, you could get a directional effect from it as well. Or when I lived in a garden level apartment I used a mag-mount rad-shack special stuck to the oranamental iron railing on the entrance to my apartment. Then when your done chatting, you pull it back inside and let it sit behind the door, so if anyone was to ever question you about it, it is hidden when you open up your door. Also, MFJ, makes a 40-6 meter bug-catcher antenna that mounts to alost anything, it's only like 70 bucks, and can tune anywhere between the 40 and 6 meter bands. Also a random wire inside of the building ran around the perimeter of you ceiling can have good results too.
Don't give up, challenges are presented to us for a reason. It may take many tries to accomplish what you desire, but don't forget, that's what makes us Americans.
73,
DAN |
707
| | Posted on Monday, August 04, 2003 - 4:37 pm: |
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Heya Mudduck-
I'll drag this one out again...
stealth antennas
With the 11m dipole practically at ground level, I get out about 5-20m locally, and have worked Hawaii, Australia, NZ, almost all of the Caribbean and S./Central America in addition to the normal east/west U.S. states, some short skip to Oklahoma, Louisiana, NM, AZ, Mexico, N. Texas running only 12w. The NZ and Australia were very short callsign/report/hihowarya flukes, of course, but nevertheless, had I been running 100w, it would have been much better. I could hear them, just couldn't cut the mustard over 5000m noisy path on ch 38USB
The dual band upside down J-pole works well with about 75% of the available local repeaters with only a HTX-204 pushing it.
OK, so say you don't want to beat a dead horse anymore. Well, you could branch off into some cool modes like AO-40, 10, ISS, even believe it or not, some EME at 2.4 GHZ with just stacked yagis which on that band are only about 18" long, all using very unobtrusive antennas mounted on a portable tripod. There are plenty of plans on the web for this kind of setup.
As for selling off your cool stuff, I suffer from the same malady. I buy stuff then hang on to it forever, even if it just sits there. I've often thought of selling some of it off to buy a really whiz-bang radio, but in reality, I would rather buy the whiz-bang and add it to the collection!
But..you say you could sell a few pieces to buy MORE radios? Won't you still have the same problem with antenna space? |
Xlaxx
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 1:46 pm: |
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707-
Nice link/pics for the stealth antennas.
I like the looks of them for sure. I saw your link before as I was possibly going to set-up a stealth antenna due to restrictions but ended up moving anyway,... Maco is up on the roof now, no covenants or restrictions!
Do you have the instructions on making these anyway?
Thanks
XLAXX |
707
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 7:16 pm: |
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They are both store-bought. The Jpole is an Arrow brand and the dipole is just a typical 10m dipole-in-a-bag from the ham store |
Xlaxx
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 10:16 pm: |
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OK,... I thought I did see something at HRO for a dipole-in-a-bag. I love reading the creative antenna stories, especially the stealth placement of them. Also, it just gives people more options. Your pics are great, I was laughing when I saw them because it was really kinda cool.
XLAXX |
Taz
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 19, 2003 - 6:22 pm: |
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now thats creative 707 |
Leadfoot
| | Posted on Sunday, September 21, 2003 - 1:24 am: |
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when i was in an apartment style dorm in college, i used the central air unit with a magnetmount antenna, it did a pretty good job, my niegbor accross the way ran a coax out his front door to his truck running dual whips, lol he got out a lot better then i did, lmao |
Diggerodell
| | Posted on Sunday, September 21, 2003 - 9:56 am: |
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when i lived in a townhome i just run coax thru my window and had my a99 on my pick up!!!!!!!! and yes it worked....
BOBBY |
TomCat
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 12:26 pm: |
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Hey Barefoot,
Does that firestick indoor antenna work well??
I was thinking about purchasing one myself but sure would like a second opinion.
TomCat
(805 in Northern VA)
38 lsb |
Barefoot
| | Posted on Friday, September 26, 2003 - 4:42 pm: |
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Tomcat
I'm surprised at how well the indoor Firestick does work. I've talked a lot of skip on it. I get out good for about 5 or 6 miles local. I am in a basement apartment and would probably do much better on an upper floor. I do worry about how much RF it is putting out!! It is only about five foot from me! |
Bigbob
| | Posted on Saturday, September 27, 2003 - 7:41 am: |
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Barefoot,get a wireless boom mike and a swivel chair and some coppertone,then turn very slowly when you tx,you should have a beautiful tan in no time,just shield your eyes. |
Crafter
| | Posted on Saturday, September 27, 2003 - 4:40 pm: |
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I can vouch for the eye's I got 20/400 now without glasses. |
Barefoot
| | Posted on Saturday, September 27, 2003 - 7:54 pm: |
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I've already lost most of my hair and have to wear glasses!!! |
Bigbob
| | Posted on Sunday, September 28, 2003 - 12:06 am: |
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You forgot to coppertone your head. |
TomCat
| | Posted on Monday, September 29, 2003 - 12:50 pm: |
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Barefoot,
Thanks for the info I might look into that once I get moved into the new homestead. Like Bigbob said don't forget the coppertone, cause if you do, you won't only get a "sunburn" but you might start glowing at night too!
Thanks Again |
RCI 2990
| | Posted on Monday, September 29, 2003 - 2:54 pm: |
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My stuff is still up and in service but its all at the folkses and i live a town over.. I now live in an apartment and cannot put up an antenna... |
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