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Xlaxx
| | Posted on Sunday, September 21, 2003 - 4:25 pm: | 
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What does a swing kit actually do when installed into a radio? I know that you get more wattage swing (on a meter) and it involves a resistor and diode in combination but what are the mechanics of this modification?
Thanks for allowing me to ask a question of others and to get sound answers. This is what makes the Copper Forum so great!
XLAXX |
de
| | Posted on Monday, September 22, 2003 - 8:00 am: |
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Here ya go....
"* Sets your radio to drive most amps. * Gives radio loud "beefy" sound. * Allows you to be herd better at a distance. * Includes peak & tune * Drives an amp much better than the alternative of, detuning the power.(eg.1w-3w key,only 5w-15w swing. * Tycical modulation kit: 1w-3w dead key, 15w-50w modulation swing depending on the radio. * Works great with Connex echo. * Not recomended for some radios with built in amps. May cause distortion. These radios have plenty of modulation swing anyway. " |
RCI 2990
| | Posted on Monday, September 22, 2003 - 1:18 pm: |
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Its basically a resitor or a cap thats installed insidea thingy that looks like an ice cube with lots of wires that go to nothing that come out of it. I was hooked into one once a long time ago and i took it out to see what it amounted to and was shocked that it was so simple and i paid 50.00 to have it installed and to have my radio retuned!!!!! |
ss8541
| | Posted on Monday, September 22, 2003 - 9:42 pm: |
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ok, the down and dirty on a swing kit is that it is really a 'wallet kit', designed to 'swing' money from your wallet to the techs pocket. everything that de listed can be accomplished by simply removing the limiter. if you drive an amp, remove limiter and lower carrier.
like 2990 said, there is usually less than $1.00 worth of parts but you will pay about $20 for those parts because they have the word 'kit' included in the name. i have seen some of these kits where more than one wire went to ground. why, you may ask. because they are good for nothing but to make the installer(many -techs- fit this category) and owner feel that with all the wires, they must be doing something. they know that most will never realize that they are being terminated to gnd.
there are modifications out there known as npc and ppe that are bascially speech compressors that work on the negative modulation peaks. when used correctly, they are completely different from a 'swing kit' and give very little distortion. |
Xlaxx
| | Posted on Monday, September 22, 2003 - 10:28 pm: |
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Where are most of these resistors/caps installed? Is there a specific "sweet spot" in the radio were it is usually put in? I suppose it depends on the radio that you are using but there must be some commonality.
Thanks for the answers!
XLAXX |
307
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 12:06 pm: |
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A "Swing Kit" is a fast way for a CB Shop to reap you of your hard earned dollars. You do not need a "Swing Kit" to get maximum modulation from ANY radio. If you cut open a "swing kit" you will find nothing other that a small capacitor and 5 wires and maybe a resistor. They are a hoax and actually "degrade" the audio quality.
307 |
Kc0gxz
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 11:47 am: |
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Xlaxx
There are all kinds of Swing Kits on the market these days. The only one that ever made any sense to me is the one I made all by myself and hung in the tree in my back yard for my grandaughter to swing on.
It works great. The more drive you put behind it, the higher it will swing. I'm afraid to take it to the max though.
End results? Over modulated laughter and a delightful squeel so high pitched that it makes my hearing aid spin in my ear.
36 feet of cophased heavy duty rope seemed to balance everything out. So far, no problems.
Jeff, kc0gxz. |
Reno
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 24, 2003 - 12:19 am: |
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Hello xlaxx, there are other forms of swing kits. the first that comes to my mind is speech prossesing and its included in most new ham radios made today.
Its a way of expanding the average modulation envalope with out going over 100% modulation. the reason for not going over 100% is that when that happens the positive peaks overide the negative peaks and the result is harmonic distotion. now harmonic distotion may make your rms wattmeter swing more but,,,your nieghbors wont like hearing you on there electronic devices. May i sugest investigating the topic of modulation,,again the arrl handbook is in most library,s and there should be plenty of info on the web.
your copper forum friend: reno |
RCI 2990
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 24, 2003 - 1:54 am: |
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They are a joke... I once was bedazzled by the swing kits (back when i was stupid and didnt know better) but i quickly wised up to them and found out they were nothing more than what i mentioned.. about a 1.00 worht of parts and some wires. A PPC mod works much better and sounds louder on the air than any ol' swingkits anyday!!! |
Kattracker
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 24, 2003 - 7:52 pm: |
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de,
nice copy and paste job, lol! I read that very same thing on a couple web sites selling those.
Kattracker |
ss8541
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 24, 2003 - 10:47 pm: |
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even speech processors add a certain amount of distortion. like the npc and ppe (when done correctly) it may be a small amount but it is still there. |
Xlaxx
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 24, 2003 - 11:09 pm: |
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Hey guys! Thank you for the answers. I am learning different modifications and have seen some of them done. ss8541 is right about lowering the carrier, that's the starting point I guess. I did the NPC mod to the Voyage and it did pretty well but was questioned about it when one volts the TP. Another tech took it out and did ANOTHER mod and got the same thing the NPC mod did.... man, I get confused with all these mods. I guess it just depends on the radio.
Highlander-
What ESSENTIAL equipment does one need to perform these mods?
Thanks
XLAXX |
Bruce
| | Posted on Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 3:12 pm: |
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speech processors ARE distorion that how they work you either CLIP audio or you compress it.
I have them and correctly adjusted distorsion is their but is a increase in audio loudness ...the entire idea. |
Kc0gxz
| | Posted on Friday, September 26, 2003 - 5:43 pm: |
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Bruce
I've never heard a speech processor that sounded good close by but being far away in the distants from it, I think that's where they really shine.
Jeff, kc0gxz. |
Bruce
| | Posted on Friday, September 26, 2003 - 9:01 pm: |
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I got one in my alinco and my ft-840 i dont use them as for how they sound i've heard a few that sounded ok like the ten-tec but most well i like a nice clean audio...... not the background sounds of the paint drying on the shack walls |
ss8541
| | Posted on Friday, September 26, 2003 - 11:35 pm: |
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kc0gxz, i use the sp1a with what i call the ppe modification to the uniden export clones. it sounds very good at any distance. it needs to be used with the rk56 or one the astatic noise cancelling(non-amplified). then there is no background amplification. i set them up on a service monitor(can do the same with a 'monitor' radio and o'scope).
the distortion of a stock radio at 100% symetrical modulation (or close to this) is between 2-3%. a ppe/sp1a modified radio's distortion rises to 10-18% depending on the amount of negative compression by the ppe mod and audio compression of the sp1a. it sill beats the he!! out of the 30-40% distortion of removing the limiter.
so yes bruce increased loudness is the idea, but there is always a price. am i knocking it, no. i use some 'tactics' myself. but i do no believe in removing the limiter.
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Kd4amg
| | Posted on Saturday, September 27, 2003 - 10:44 am: |
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...a "swing kit " is a small cat that you sit down in the seat of a swing, and very slowly move forward/backward, but not hard / fast enough for the cat to JUMP OFF, who ever can keep their cat on the seat the longest time wins, but you have to keep the SWIMG moving...( no duct tape allowed )...this can also be done with puppies and frogs and other small animals. No age limit and it is legal in all 50 states. Just remember that when the animal jumps off the seat of the swing, that your turn is over. No abusing the animal. You may not sit in the swing, and let the animal sit in your lap. also bench swings are a totally different catergory, mainly referring to ordinary playground swings.Have fun !! |
Bruce
| | Posted on Saturday, September 27, 2003 - 1:09 pm: |
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hd4 ..... thats a hoot..... |
fancypants
| | Posted on Saturday, October 04, 2003 - 4:02 am: |
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I've yet to see an "NPC" mod that was done correctly. There is a way to do it, i just haven't seen any shop that can or does.
In most cases, NPC mods cause the radio to sound like very flat and monotone ( lack tonality and dynamics ) while causing unnecessary heat build up in the associated circuitry. There is very visible distortion of the waveform on all of the NPC mods that i've seen.
As far as "swing kits" go, i've seen tons of different versions of these and they all do different things depending on the mod and the radio. A "swing kit" for a Cobra 29 / 25 or a Uniden 78/76/68/66 is VERY different from what most "swing kits" for a Grant / 148 or SSB based export chassis. In the case of the AM chassis, all it does is reduce your carrier level. Due to the varying methods use, some will allow a higher peak than others. Some folks will use a pot and a transistor, some will use an RC ( resistor / capacitor ) network, some will use a pot and an RC network and some will add diodes in series with the "striker". This last method is a real joke as it not only reduces the carrier, but the peak power is also drastically eaten up. The first three methods can work okay depending on how they are implimented but if the carrier is reduced too far, the radio will suffer from rampant over-modulation. The only time that this should be used or "necessary" is if you are going to run the radio with a linear. Otherwise, a higher carrier is better so long as you can fully modulate the waveform to capacity on an average basis.
As to the exports and ssb based chassis, i've seen some REAL doozies. I won't go into details here, but anybody that says that they are going to put a "swing kit" or NPC mod into your export or SSB radio should be avoided. It looks impressive on a meter but isn't doing much for the lifespan of the guts of the radio. In some cases, i've seen fires inside radios that had these types of modifications done to them. Many of the idiots take it upon themselves to "strap the finals" to higher voltage but don't really know how to go about doing such correctly. While i'm not a fan of doing that on most radios, it can be done to work reasonably well. Like my comments about the NPC mod above though, i just don't see anyone doing this "right" on a regular basis.
As the others have said, "swing kits" are basically a joke meant to draw money out of your wallet. On top of that, they typically end up keeping you in the pockets of some "hack" somewhere. If a hack installs a "mod kit" into your radio and it smokes, another hack is going to make money repairing it. If it squeals like a pig ( which they do quite often ), another hack will take your money to fix it.
All these knuckleheads care about is getting your money in their pockets and keeping money floating in the system. If they knew what they were doing, they wouldn't do half the stuff that they do AND they would offer you a lengthy warranty on the work that they perform. How many shops do you know of that offer a LONG warranty on their work ? Not too many, that's for sure. That's because most of them are "certified hacks", NOT "certified techs". |
RCI 2990
| | Posted on Saturday, October 04, 2003 - 12:14 pm: |
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Kd4amg that was funny!!!!! LOL!!!!! I am soooo glad to see some guys can make fun of this subject and not get all technical and huffy about it!!! Good to see someone with a sense of humor on this forum.....Sometimes it gets too stuff in here with all the technical BS.... |
RCI 2990
| | Posted on Saturday, October 04, 2003 - 12:24 pm: |
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I DO know a few techs (very very very few) that warantee their work! Problem is 90% of the radio guys out there are hacks!!! $$$ is what drives them and there pretty much nothing anyone can do about it! And it does no good for a tech to badmouth a guy in his town that does the "hack" work because most of the time most guys will go to the "hack" guy and tell him what the tech said bad about him and then the word gets out and guess who loses!!! The Tech -NOT- the hack!! Ive seen this several times were I live! We used to have a tech here that worked on CB radios but he never removed limiters, sold export radios or linears, and never expanded radios for extra channels. He went under because of all this and all the locals went to the hack at the, you guessed it truckstop, because he did everything the tech refused to do!! The tech went under and took a job as a mechanic.. Its all about $$$$ i guess anymore Oh well, life do go on......
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Bruce
| | Posted on Saturday, October 04, 2003 - 8:12 pm: |
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2990
AMENT !
I get radios brought to me by employes all the time and ill only say that the workmanship is SAD VERY SAD. I feel bad for thoes who cannot do there own work and do not have the knolege to understand what how and what must be done. I get emails all the time from people who have been cheated some are just unhappy some are justified in how they feel. When the FCC stopped the use of the radiotelephone license as a requirement to work on radios and worse made it the OWNERS problem it allowed every hacker to have free reign. I know for one copper DOES back what they do and that should tell a buyer something
....your so right $$$$$$ thats what makes the world go around $$$$$$$$ speaking of them im a bid short right now! |
Bigbob
| | Posted on Saturday, October 04, 2003 - 11:56 pm: |
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Bruce you mean I gotta stop charging for turning up the s-meter control?darn. |
Bruce
| | Posted on Sunday, October 05, 2003 - 1:02 am: |
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no big bob thats covered under CALABRATION |
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