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Cm3885
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 31, 2003 - 8:22 pm: | 
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How easy is it to get one fixed if it goes bad?
A local was dissing on my RCI 2970 DX and my 2995 DX and said that no one will fix them.. Is this true and how easy can one get one fixed? maybe i made a big mistake and i should have looked at getting a older 2970 and a 2990 and saved myself the misfortune of having 2 radios that there is a very real possilbility that i cannot get them fixed by my local tech!!!!!! |
Bruce
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 31, 2003 - 11:50 pm: |
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3885
they can be fixed EVEN old time techs can fix them
( there just a pain ) |
Tech808
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 31, 2003 - 11:51 pm: |
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Well if they are both covered under the Two Year Warranty and something goes wrong and the seal is not broken they will be covered under Warranty by Ranger. |
Tech8541
| | Posted on Thursday, January 01, 2004 - 3:43 am: |
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cm3885,
honestly????.....you most likely will not be able to find a local tech to do the repairs, but there are techs out there who look at smts the same way they do standard components....all are parts...just layed out different and different ways of working with them. you may just have to send them off.
smt -IS- definitely for the younger techs. the parts are very small, which means harder to see, and harder for your hands to work with.
if you do have a problem with these radios contact 307 1st. i'm not sure how he feels about working with smt's. if he can't help you, there are techs here who can help you. |
Radiodude
| | Posted on Thursday, January 01, 2004 - 9:24 am: |
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SMTs are just parts!! You need different tools to work with them but any good long time tech should be able to do any repairs you may have, heck I did a Mpd on my Icom ict7h, where the board is about the size of a post it mote and the componets are the size of a grain of rice.
IT CAN BE DONE!!! |
Bruce
| | Posted on Thursday, January 01, 2004 - 2:34 pm: |
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8541 some of us old timers bad eyes and all STILL tackle them its a challenge ..... |
Cm3885
| | Posted on Thursday, January 01, 2004 - 3:11 pm: |
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Nothing wrong yet.. LOL knock on wood too! I just wanted to here some reassurance that they CAN be fixed if something goes haywire. But i get sick of the locals dissing the SMB radios. I tell them they are just as good if not better than the old radios but they refuse to listen. In fact the local RCI radio demand is for the old radios and most guys will pay anywere between 275 and 400.00 for a USED MIND YOU RCI 2970 so they dont have to buy a new SMB radio!!!!!!! It sounds silly but its true... |
Crafter
| | Posted on Thursday, January 01, 2004 - 10:45 pm: |
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I don't see a problem with getting them fixed if they ever break, but like 8541 said probally not locally. Tell the guy dissing your radios they will never break their built so well! |
Tech8541
| | Posted on Thursday, January 01, 2004 - 10:55 pm: |
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cm3885,
if these techs would stop spreading this b.s., then there wouldn't be so many people in your area paying big bucks for used equipment, when they could get the newer equipment at a cheaper price.
these techs are bashing smt for one reason.... JOB SECURITY. they are either too lazy to work with smt or incapable for many reasons to work with smt. so they bash these devices to keep their customers away from them. if everyone in your area starts buying smt radios, these techs will soon find that many, many of their customers have radios that they can't fix. that is lost money to them, since they will have to turn that repair away. they already know this, so they lie about these radios to keep their customers away from them.
many dealers in my area are charging ungodly amounts for rci's and telling their customers that the price is so high because of the technology(a technology that supposedly no one can repair). this way they are getting all they can up front, because they know that they will not get anything out of it later, since they will not work on them. and then many of the dealers are not even carrying the rci line and tell customers that they are junk, or that they refuse to carry something that -no one-(notice i said no one and not they) can not work on. |
Cm3885
| | Posted on Friday, January 02, 2004 - 1:41 pm: |
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Well its not a tech that is telling everyone this but a local operator that "claims" hes a tech! You know the kind, little or no education and they "think" know more than the guys that have formal eduaction. The imfamous shadetree CB screwdriver jocky!!!!!
I told the guy that i liked my RCI 2970 DX and he said "g Do yourself and everyone else a big favor and get rid of it and get a ranger 2970 pre surface mount radio because nobody will work on the DX and if you want it worked on you have to send it to ranger and they will return the radio the way it was! Stock!" Im not worred because im happy with the RCI 2970 DX and that all im woried about. If it needs repairs i know several techs on here on the forum and a tech thats local (that has 30+ years electronics exp) that io go to that can and will work on SMB radios! The tech i send my stuff to thats local already told me he likes the newer stuff because its more rugged. |
Bruce
| | Posted on Friday, January 02, 2004 - 2:21 pm: |
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back 40 years ago i can remember the older techs condeming transistors for the same reason ... i made up my mind i would never do that not even this useless SMT this JUNK that is making old foggy techs give up in discuse. ( Im kidding )
Serously when i was in school even the teachers down played them My sophmore electronics teacher held up a 2n107 one day and anounced GENTLMEN THIS IS A TRANSISTOR ITS A CUTE TOY BUT USELESS MABY ONE DAY THEY MIGHT FIND SOMETHING TO DO WITH IT! Well Mr Leavy was right they did he died in 68 so never got a chance to see just how right he was. SMT is here to stay no matter how big a PAIN is is we are stuck with them. I have adapted with hot air desolders a BIG mag lamp lots of light ...... |
Unit199
| | Posted on Friday, January 02, 2004 - 8:35 pm: |
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I have worked on several smt radios and I don't mind them at all. I am 60 YRS old and I have trouble with motor control of my right and I still don't mind working on them. Unit199-Harve |
Cm3885
| | Posted on Friday, January 02, 2004 - 10:49 pm: |
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I tell the guys that SMTs are here and they WILL NOT go away! I even had one guy tell me that RCI wants to go back to the regular boards because they are not selling the new radios. I know this is a bunch of BUNK!! I wont be suprised if ALL electronics stuff goes SMT. IMHO it sorta weeds out the real techs from the ones that are hacks. The real techs are usually educated enough (or have gone back to school to to take a few classes to learn about them) to work on the SMT radios and the hacks usually know nothing about the radios so they diss them so they can stay clear of them. |
2600
| | Posted on Saturday, January 03, 2004 - 4:46 am: |
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Yeah, folks get a little "cloudy" about the SMT parts and the expense of the tools to work with them. They gripe about every new technology that requires new tools and/or skills. Not to mention a whole new list of parts to stock.
There is a silver lining that nobody has mentioned. The infamous "cold solder-joint" trouble that older export/10-meter radios are famous for is NOT a problem with surface-mount circuit boards NEARLY as often. When the solder is what holds the parts onto the board, the quality of the soldering HAS to be better, or the parts fall off!
SMT printed circuit boards are simply more reliable. They have to be, just to pass final tests and make it out the factory door.
73 |
Mr_Rf
| | Posted on Saturday, January 03, 2004 - 7:47 pm: |
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You know the Old Timer's saying...
If it don't glow...It's gotta go!!!
The techs who won't work on SMT's are just old and set in there ways! |
Cm3885
| | Posted on Saturday, January 03, 2004 - 9:49 pm: |
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Exactly!!!!!! |
Bruce
| | Posted on Saturday, January 03, 2004 - 10:17 pm: |
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Mr RF WHAT DID YOU SAY SUNNY! ( LOL ) |
Mr_Rf
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 11:14 pm: |
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Hey, I just lay SMT radios over the chimney on the 4CX1500 amp. Talk, XXXxoops...I mean ratchet jaw, on Ch. 6 for a few minutes and use the tweezers to swap the part I need to replace!
Works everytime! Can't say much for the heat ring it leaves behind. lol |
Bruce
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 07, 2004 - 5:02 am: |
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LOVE IT!
When i first worked on a SMT motorola and first had the hot air desolder i got the board too hot..... and JUST SLIGHTLY tiped it what a neet effect all thoes tiney little parts shifted about 1/32 inch well at least i wasn't the first in the shop to do it ..... and at least 3 young wipper-snappers have followed..... welcome to the OOPS club! |
Mr_Rf
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 07, 2004 - 9:38 am: |
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Of course, Bruce, u know I'm only kidding about th e4CX1500 hot air machine! lol
I've been one of the spoiled brats on the block with access to the latest and greatest technology toys including wave machines, hot air, hot box, hot gas(not my own), x-ray, laser, insertion, extraction machines, etc., and of course someone else to run'm when I had no clue what I was doing!
Say goodbye to manufacturing technology in the USA...and now Bush wants tosign in a immigrant workers program..geeessseeeeeeuuuus
Life WAS grand...but that place closed last month and moved to China. At least I get the Federal displaced worker benefits for the next couple years which are totally worthless unless u can afford to be jobless while playing their game. |
Bruce
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 07, 2004 - 10:24 am: |
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Mr RF its a great story anyway! ..... I can see it now Mr RF's SMT repair ......the latest we use a 1000w microwave heat that sucker up and BAM! thoes little suckers just pop off the board like pop corn.
On a serious note i'v been through what your going through a number of times. I did mil contract work for about 20 years got hit many times and got tired of it. This is how i wound up in public safe. It was a big cut in pay but worth it I like what im doing.
The market for electronics is VERY diffrent than when i got in this in the early 60's not much repair today and repair was the name of the game then.
Techs then had a few years of training but for the most learn it on the job there were no computers no internet and no copper forum ... if you needed to find out something you were on your own!
I shure hope you get a break the worst layoff for me was when Sperry closed the R&D lab i worked in the cut was from 31 to 2.... April of 1984 it was my sons first birthday and beleve it or not it was in the paper Sperry had told the paper! my mother in law saw it that morning and kept it from me..... Got to work and found along with 250 others I had no job and went home to his party.
Its a strange hopeless feeling everytime it happings but i've got both thumbs up for you you'll get a break! I did and that feeling makes up for the bad times.
Bruce |
409
| | Posted on Friday, January 09, 2004 - 4:38 am: |
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Most of the SMD boards end up in the junk box. Many shops won't touch them because the board is so compact in size and parts too small. Even the professional repair services junk them if there's too much wrong. My son works for one of those repair and up-grade services and they dump hundreds of SMD's every week. SMD is here to stay for sure because of the trend in electronics to go smaller, but when they die,they might just be dead for good. I try to avoid radio equipment with SMD boards myself. |
Bruce
| | Posted on Friday, January 09, 2004 - 9:06 am: |
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409
The cost of making them has fallen so much. I worked for NCR in the early 90's fixing computer boards back when a keyboard was 99 bucks and a B&W green screen was 500. By 1995 the cost had fell so much NCR began closing its 13 repair shops and by 97 all were gone. This has been the case in much of electronics why fix a $15 modem .... SMT is a pain manly because the size and closeness of components ..... gone are the (good old) days when you heated the iron on a pile of charcoal droped your rosen on the joint and melted the bar of nickel/silver and returned the iron to charcoal to be ready for the next joint. You either adapt or die i loved my old iron but it has been gone for 30 years now replaced with a electric one and now hot air. SMT will replace all radio within 10 years and reality check is we have to get used to it. |
Cm3885
| | Posted on Friday, January 09, 2004 - 5:08 pm: |
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So do you guys think the CB radio hobby will die because of these new radios? |
Bigbob
| | Posted on Friday, January 09, 2004 - 5:37 pm: |
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But,isn't there a practical limit to smallness,people aren't getting any smaller,so what are the advantages of having a kenwood ts-520 that fits in the palm of your hand,and how can they make a 5 kilowatt amp the size of a wall mount power supply,c'mon somethings are always going to be big,it's not so much compactness that's desirable,it's when it breaks just tho it in the trash and buy a knew one,and that's another thing,everything is becoming throw away,yet the epa says wait nope you can't put that in the land fill,so you can throw it away but where,for crying out loud. |
Beantown
| | Posted on Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 8:36 am: |
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I hope the SMT technology goes in the same direction as the modern computer. I would love to see the basic one piece board that radios are built with tday turn into a P.C. type motherboard/daughter board layout. Think of the posibilities with things like the final section, on a seperate board. Darn, if you wanted bigger finals just pop out the baord and swap in bigger ones. Having an issue with the RX side of the radio? You could just pop out the board and either have it repaired or buy a new one. Very much the same way you would change out a modem in a P.C. Install what ever board is in need of repair, reset the bios and fire it back up! Sure sound like a P.C. to me! Other advantages to this layout is heat. Seperate component board standing up inside the radio have better air flow to dissipitate heat. Ahhh now ya can run more powerfull radio in a much smaller space. Think about add on's to the radio, want echo? Open up a spare slot and pop in the board, you could do the same for talkback and other goodies! The possibilities really are wideopen. The SMT stuff we are seeing now is just the tip of the iceburg. Some people don't want to hear it, but it's simply the evolution of electronics. Just MHO flame suit on!
See ya,
Beantown |
Pig040
| | Posted on Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 9:57 am: |
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These small radios are not a boon to you as you age. I have a Kenwood 2 meter handheld that is so small I have to use a pencil to push the buttons, and I better put my reading glasses on, and have adequate light, haha getting old kind of blows! |
409
| | Posted on Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 2:49 pm: |
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What it all comes down to is SMD devices are DISPOSABLE !! The world we live in is going that way. If you want radio equipment you can service without a microscope, better find something a little older. I never liked DISPOSABLE electronics myself. |
Bigbob
| | Posted on Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 6:03 pm: |
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Bingo-409. |
Cm3885
| | Posted on Sunday, January 11, 2004 - 12:08 am: |
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FM on both my 2970 DX and my 2995 DX is horible! Everyone sounds garbled and distorted on receive. Im just not that happy with my new rangers besides i cant tinker on em like i did when i had my older rangers... Yeah pretty much everything now is thro it away if it doesnt work anymore.... Sad but thats the way everything is going and there sint a THING we can do about it. I guess thats the way it is anymore and we will have to accept it as the norm.....
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Bigbob
| | Posted on Sunday, January 11, 2004 - 1:33 pm: |
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We can send a message to the manu.by not buying,oh oh,I said a bad thing,we get our stuff from Copper,I can't stop buying radio stuff,I'm addicted,"Hi,my name is Bigbob,and I'm a Copper-holic"LOL,bigbob |
Cm3885
| | Posted on Sunday, January 11, 2004 - 5:56 pm: |
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Ranger needs a wakeup call... SMT radios = lower sales because most guys want radios that they can work on.I have heard that their sales have dropped almost 40% because of the new baords that they have in em now.... Heard that from a Tech... |
Bruce
| | Posted on Sunday, January 11, 2004 - 10:07 pm: |
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Sorry no the wake up call is its here to stay in the 60's the cry was transistors now its SMT. Its not going away we just have to face that. |
Mr_Rf
| | Posted on Sunday, January 11, 2004 - 11:56 pm: |
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I know we're all entitled to our own opinion so here's mine:
It's Supply and Demand, Boys and Girls...
They just don't make some of those old style parts anymore! (and for a good reason) So, quit belly-acheing...you have three choices:
1. No radios to buy because they don't make the old style parts anymore (due to limited demand)
2. Radios made from recycled old parts
3. SMT radios. !!!
I just don't get it... I saw my first surface mount two-way radio in 1982, and I was nowhere near the technology guru's (the designers). So, I suspect they were playing with them for at least several years before I saw them. Oh , and BTW even in thier infantency they were far superior to lead-mount radios, better all round...better RX sensitivity, better rejection, cleaner tune-up, better XMTR noise figures, more consistant to manufacturer (radio-to-radio), etc. and cheaper to manufacturer.
So, quit belly acheing and tell the manufacturers something productive for a change. Tell them what new features you want to see the radios have the ability to do rather than complain about SMT.
The Galaxy's, Connex, Superstars, Cobras, Unidens, etc are all what I call "Antique feature Clones" of each other...the same controls, same features, same everything, and all no better than CB's from 30 years ago..."Antique Feature Clones"!!!!
- How about CTCSS in a CB (it's actually legal per the FCC rules);
- How about earphone jacks on the front of all rigs, mobile and base;
- How about the CooL-fancy digital S/RF meters like Kenwood or Icom ham rigs have;
- How about dual-Independent receivers in one rig so u can monitor two channels at the same time;
- -How about real RIT controls (clarifiers) with digital readout of the offset;
- How about Ext. keying line connections;
- Computer interface capability;
- How about a built-in 3 or 4 position antenna switch;
- How about programmable memory channels that remember specific settings such as which antenna to select, NB settings, DSP settings, RIT (clarifier) settings, Mode settings, mic gain settings, etc.;
- How about onboard DSP with quality comparable to a Timewave DSP-599ZX, etc.;
- How about a built-in auto-antenna tuner;
- How about built-in VOX (Voice Operated Ralay) to key the radio when you talk;
- How about bringing back the "Big Box" design like the Trams or Golden Eagles had...real wood sides, "BIG feel" front panel, wide spaced knobs, etc.;
- How about...an invention or two!
I know the ACE Mechanics from the CB manufacturers watch this forum so one of you bright engineering types run with this post and change the hobby forever (and your bosses back pocket). Go design a "CB Guru's Rig"...one that's legal to sell...a feature packed rig of the future with some new selling features like the ones I listed above. Be creative for a change and invent something for a change!
One might be amazed what it would cost to manufacturer such a creature, and the profits it could bring. That's my opinion. |
Bruce
| | Posted on Monday, January 12, 2004 - 10:53 am: |
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and sell it for $199 through copper! |
Cm3885
| | Posted on Monday, January 12, 2004 - 12:47 pm: |
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Yeah but because they are all going SMT doesnt mean we have to buy them!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I mean go look at the sales of used RCI radios vs the new SMT radios. they sell the old ones for sometimes more than the new ones because NO ONE wants the new crap!!!!
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Bruce
| | Posted on Monday, January 12, 2004 - 1:10 pm: |
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i have heard this for the last 40 years....
1) tubes are better than transistors... list tube 40 ch radios in production in 2003 here .........
2) No one will buy SMT radios Ham or CB ok well how many current production through the board radios are out there
3) 23 CH radios are better than 40 ch How many 23 ch radios are still FCC approved and still being manufactured.
The fact is time goes on now if you have a problem with that this web site should intrest you.
http://www.midnightscience.com/ |
409
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 13, 2004 - 4:23 am: |
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It's like this.....buy the SMD junk and use it till it dies. Chunk it and get another one !! That's the plan. Look at TVs,VCRs and DVD players. It's been heading that way for years. |
Cm3885
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 13, 2004 - 1:35 pm: |
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And thats the way of the world now!!!!! Throw it away and buy new! LOL!!!! |
Mr_Rf
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 13, 2004 - 10:55 pm: |
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Hmmm, and you're worried about throw away CB's, etc.
Count you blessings you still have a CB or Ham band to talk on...times change and radio bands change ownership too! I'd worry more about that issue! |
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