| Author |
Message |
    
ron
| | Posted on Sunday, January 18, 2004 - 8:54 pm: | 
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i was wondering who make a good beam antenna signal engineering or jo gunn or maco or star gun
which company make the best |
Bullet
| | Posted on Monday, January 19, 2004 - 10:18 am: |
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out of the above mentioned id go with the maco or signal eng.
but niether one makes "the best" beam. but they both make very fine products that are compromised designs that meet the needs of most cbers.
jo gunns in my opinion are very well made, but thats about it. they fall very short of delivering what they promise in performance.
star gunn, i dont have any experiance with but i think there just a gimick antenna. |
Rattlesnakejake
| | Posted on Monday, January 19, 2004 - 11:55 am: |
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i agree |
Marlboro_Man
| | Posted on Monday, January 19, 2004 - 8:38 pm: |
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I HAVE HERD LOTS OF GOOD THINGS ABOUT THE SIGNAL ENG. BEAMS BUT I HAVE HAD PERSONAL EXPERIENCE WITH MACOS. JUST CHECK THE PRICES ON A M103C WOW!! ALMOST AS CHEAP AS A GOOD GROUND PLANE BUT WITH A LOT MORE PERFORMANCE!!! THE M103C HAS 11db GAIN WITH A 20 X MULTIPLCATION FACTOR!! |
Ca346
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 - 12:08 pm: |
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I have the Signal Engineering Lightning 4+. It's a 4 element Quad. Great antenna, but a little pricey. Still, very light and seems to pick up stations way out there that were unreadable before. Weighs 20# with a boom length of 18 feet. It's very awkward to put up because of the 14 foot spreaders on each element, but sure gets out there. |
CALVIN JONE
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 - 2:20 pm: |
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to ca346 is the signal engineering lightning 4 + the same as the white lightning from signal engineering i was told that the white lightning has a fifteen foot boom and has thirteen foot spreader and need ten foot to turn it |
Ca346
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 - 6:57 pm: |
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CAL:
You'll have to check the SE website to compare the spec's, but I think the Lightning 4+ that I have only has a longer beam. Otherwise they are the same antenna.
I "think" one of the advantages in the model I bought, was being able to add another 2 elements on the beam at a later date. It's been awhile... |
Gage
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 - 8:38 pm: |
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Ron
I own a Smoking Gunnll by Jo Gunn and Maco m-103c.I've had the m-103c up two years and very good swr's.The Smoking Gunnll I've had up 1 1/2 yrs.I've had problems with the horizontal side with the gamma match.I did however get a new gamma match free from Jo Gunn and will put it on this summer.I think the Maco has better rejection from side to side and back to front.
Just my thoughts.Gage |
ron
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 - 10:11 pm: |
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thank for the input you all gave me some idea on what i should get i might go with a signal engineering white lightning i was on there web sight their beam are light weight i read some input on this web sight about signal engineering beam and they are very powerful and you can mount them on a push pole |
Pig040
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 10:18 am: |
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Gage, It should have, you are comparing a two element to a three element beam. I had a M103, didnt hold together in the high winds, I have a JoGunn 4 element now, it has great rejection, I take Zookeeper right out of my ears when I turn that sucker. The only thing is I kind of wish that it was longer (it is 12 ft) I think the radials could be better spaced. But when I bought it I was in a more crowded area and I needed a compact beam. Kind of heavy too, 27 lbs. |
Bullet
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 8:49 pm: |
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the maco 103 should be around 7-8 db. i know they say 11db but they are tring to sell antennas,rite.
it takes a real 13dbd to produce a 20x mult factor.
more in the lines of the following:
a 27.5 foot maximized 4 element quad or a five element yagi on a long boom or the signal enginering 6 elem quad.they'll be in the 20x ranges. |
Bruce
| | Posted on Thursday, January 22, 2004 - 5:05 am: |
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Bullet your on target!
GAIN 3db=X2, 6db=X4, 9db=X8 10db=X10 13db=X20
A3elm beam will be right at 6-8 db just as you stated to get 3 db more you got to double that 2 a 6 elm beam or 5 elm quad so a 5 elm quad will be about 9-11dbd REAL gain not including " ground enhansment" which can be 3 db more Meaning if you mount it JUST right you CAN get 12-14 dbd gain out of a 5 elm quad or 6 elm beam ........ but dont bet on it. Lawson did a great seroius of papers on yagy antennas that appered in HAM RADIO in the 1970's as did the NBS ..... finding them is the problem although i have a partal coppy of the NBS ones..... no, no 13 db for a 3 elm ..... I dont think so.... The best books for this data is the ARRL antenna books and as you know you can find them at http://www.arrl.org . Geese i glad i didn't have to say JOGUNN even once!
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Pig040
| | Posted on Thursday, January 22, 2004 - 9:56 am: |
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Aw comeon bruce we know that you are a closet JoGunn Freak!! |
Ca346
| | Posted on Thursday, January 22, 2004 - 12:31 pm: |
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I talked to a guy who was using a JoGunn antenna (3 element) yesterday on my 4 element Quad. He was one of the loudest and clearest out there. He gave me the same report back.
We have all talked to someone using a 3 element beam that just seemed to stand out in the crowd. I always ask what antenna and radio combination they are using. |
Bruce
| | Posted on Thursday, January 22, 2004 - 1:05 pm: |
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right ..... |
Gage
| | Posted on Thursday, January 22, 2004 - 8:49 pm: |
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Pig040
Yes I realize I was comparing a three element to a two element.If you compare the m-103 to the SmokingGunnll,the SmokingGunnll should blow the m-103 away by the specsifications.
Just my thoughts,take care everyone!!!Gage |
Ca346
| | Posted on Thursday, January 22, 2004 - 11:03 pm: |
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Come on Bruce. Get a smile on your face 
You know all this stuff doesn't mean much when I (CALIFORNIA) can hear a guy in the Island of Bermuda transmiting on 18 Watts through a single quad... and we talk....
So much for my big antenna.... |
Bruce
| | Posted on Thursday, January 22, 2004 - 11:17 pm: |
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12DBI and X28? HUMMMMMM GAGE first 12dbi is about 10DBD a X of 10 not 28 now no 2 elm beam ive ever seen has a gain on 10 DBD more like 4-5 if your lucky. So the M-103 should out due the Smoking gun by about 3 db ..... and at 1/2 the money.
See any gain chart ( ARRL, NBS take your choice ) for yagies and tell me im wrong. Yagi and UDA set the rules decadads ago when they developed this aray ( which is where the name comes from YAGI-UDA antenna ) and with a few tweeks has never been disproven ..... even by JOGUNN.
Look at other antennas see what they clame there is no magic you get 3 dbd for 2elm. and 6 dbd for 3 elm. and 3 db more everytime you double the number of elements in the aray ...... its that simple.
Here is one ....
Cushcraft 10 meter 3 elm picked at random
Model TEN3
3dB Beamwidth, Degrees E-Plane 64
Boom Lenght ft. 8
Forward Gain, dBi 8 ( 5.8DBD )
Frequency, MHz 28-29.7
Front to Back Ratio, dB 25
No. Elements 3
This is the real world. |
Pig040
| | Posted on Friday, January 23, 2004 - 11:16 am: |
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I Agree bruce, as nice of an antenna as the smoking gun is it is only a two element beam! |
Gage
| | Posted on Friday, January 23, 2004 - 11:34 am: |
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Bruce
Yes I realize this is the real world and it seems like no matter what you hear or read things are not what they appear to be!!!!!
take care everyone!!Gage |
Crafter
| | Posted on Friday, January 23, 2004 - 12:14 pm: |
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Like a antron being 9.9 db gain. Dont get me wrong I use one! more like 3 or 4. |
Bruce
| | Posted on Friday, January 23, 2004 - 1:26 pm: |
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GAGE
I HAVE STATED FACTS THAT 60 YEARS OF MUCH SMARTER PEOPLE THAN ME HAVE FOUND TO BE TRUE.
If you feel JOGUNN is correct then have them show range results....including AUDIOGAIN.
AGAIN Lawson the NBS the ARRL and YAGI himself all agree and that dosn't leave much room for arguments....unless you or JOGUNN have found a way to change something all others have missed.
Again if so the following antenna should have 100 db gain not 30db gosh JOGUNN are you lissing?
http://www.arilaspezia.it/eme3.htm
Gain is achieved by changing the antennas lobes both horizonal and vertical. By compressing them in the direction of the receiving station .... there is no magic to it and a added element can only change this by a givin amount. Again if you feel i am incorrect fine.
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Bullet
| | Posted on Friday, January 23, 2004 - 8:45 pm: |
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i agree with that, cant change physics.
you can optimize for a given condition but thiers always trade offs. just like anything else in life.
i have really been cramming in the books and on the test tower the last 5-6 years or so on beams.
mainly on optimizing designs for quads but some yagi work as well and boys bruce is very sharp in this field. especially with the yagis.
ive come to respect his judgment on devices used to transmit/recieve electromagnetic energy regardless the type or cycle used. |
Gage
| | Posted on Saturday, January 24, 2004 - 10:14 am: |
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Bruce
What I'm trying to say is by the specs Jo Gunn is suppose to be so great and there not because I own one.I realize they inflate the facts to make you buy them.The reason I bought mine was the size I did not want anything big and it had ver/horiz on it.I did not intend to make anyone mad.Like I said by the specs the Jo Gunn should be better but it's not.
Take care everyone.Gage |
Bruce
| | Posted on Saturday, January 24, 2004 - 11:59 am: |
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Ok and no one mad the fact is people pay bug bucks for jogunn and get nothing for the money the truth is they are not all that good. |
Pig040
| | Posted on Sunday, January 25, 2004 - 10:08 am: |
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Come on Bruce, they may be no better than a lot of antennas out there but even you have to give it to them on the physical strength of the antenna, if the antenna wont put up with the elements outside, it is of no use. Here in the desert where spring winds hit 70mph on a regular basis I feel a lot more secure with the strength of the JoGunn antenna over the flimsy antennas like the Maaco, I had an M103 that twisted like a pretzel, so far, the JoGunn looks like the day I put it up. It has an impressive back door, and the side rejection is the best that I ever had. You have to go by personal experience, and the JoGunn has out performed any other beam antenna that I have ever had by far. Then again I am not a tech, but over 30 years in radio I can tell the good from the bad, and the JoGunn is a good antenna. My only regret is that I didnt buy a bigger JoGunn!! |
Kirk
Intermediate Member
Username: Kirk
Post Number: 198
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, April 29, 2004 - 6:07 pm: |
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While I agree with Bruce on the exaggerated claims, I will side with Pig on construction for sure. I've had a few beams in my life and the 5-Star I had owned is pretty rugged. So much so, that I am buying back my 5-Star that I sold to a friend. I don't think it's any "better" on performance than anything else in it's class, but I got a good deal....so why pass it up! |
