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Hammunition
| | Posted on Monday, November 05, 2001 - 8:31 pm: | 
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Had to share this story with the Copper crowd!
Last weekend I was surfin the internet and my rig was tuned to my neighborhood channel. A buddy nearby starts telling folks about a group out breaking into cars in the area and talking to each other on an upper channel. I tuned to the channel and figure out they are tearing up a subdivision just down the road. In just a few minutes I figure out there is 4 of them and the vehicle they are using is a pickup. Bad for them that I know the subdivision there are in has only one exit.
I popped on my Nextel phone and hit up the area Sheriff supervisor on direct connect (love that thing). In a matter of minutes the subdivision was cordoned off. Less than a minute later the group was chased off but a homeowner with a baseball bat. As the unlucky bandits raced towards the entrance they drove into a barracade of crusiers and armed deputies. 8 burglaries were cleared and the booty was recovered in the pickup bed. 2 were on early release and earned a trip back to the big house.
Technology Rocks!! |
Tech181
| | Posted on Monday, November 05, 2001 - 11:58 pm: |
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Hammunition,
Most excellent! Good job!
Steve
Tech181
Tech181@copperelectronics.com |
Vernonott
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 06, 2001 - 11:46 am: |
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I've always heard that you can't outrun the radio. |
Badintermod
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 06, 2001 - 4:53 pm: |
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This is a hypothetical and I will never do this!!
If I was a criminal and wanted to commit a crime and then get away from the cops, I would use their technology against them. If a Law enforcement agency Lost their entire communication system it would be much easier for a criminal to get away. Because you can out run a cop but you can't outrun the motorola!!
Alot of Agencies have switched over to the motorola type 2 trunking system. Soppose I wanted to rob a bank in a city where the authorities were on this type of system, this is what I would do.
I would shut down all of the radio communication for that agency a few minutes before I went to rob a bank in their city. It may sound hard to do but it is actually easier than you may think.
(Roseville Pd, and Sacramento sheriffs dept in Northern California Had their communication systems shut down for three days back in 1996 by a bored High School kid.)
I would take several 800mhz 35watt motorola spectra radios. Using Motorola service software I would program them to transmitt a Constant dead fm carrier on each of the control frequencies used by the trunking system. This would cause the trunking system to go into what is called Failsoft mode. In Failsoft mode, All of the channels in the trunking system Are now switched over into conventional repeaters, which can be easily jammed out by using a few more radios set up to transmitt a carrier on the input frequency of the repeater. They would be running high power into 800mhz yagi antennas pointed at the trunking systemes receive antennas. Now That their main radio system is shut down, I would have to disable whatever smaller systems the agency uses like MDTs or Clemars. If they use Mdts also called mobile data terminals I would also Jam out the frequencies used by the terminals. Some Agencies Have most of their calls dispatched over the MdTs and you never hear the call over the air. Also there is clemars which is a Law enforcement mutual aid radio system. In california this system lets different Agencies communicate with each other. I would Also have 3 110 watt vhf radios set up to transmitt a jamming signal on the clemars frequencies as well. This entire Jamming system would be at a remote location and would be easily turned off and on via a 900mhz link and DTMF commands. This is very simple to do using commercially available controller boards.
So right as I pulled into the parking lot of the bank I would pull out my 900mhz handheld radio and Activate the jamming system by punching in the correct DTMF command. I would then go inside and proceed to rob the bank. I would then run to a hidden location where my get away car would be stashed. My get away car Would also be a 2001 ford crown victoria with full Police markings of an out of town Agency.
Once I was well out of the Area I would grab my 900mhz handheld, punch in another DTMF command and
let the Agency have their communication system back.
The Agency would be very confused and in a state of panic. Once the dispatcher recieved notice of the bank robbery she would only be able no notify one unit at a time via the units cell phone number. By the time a unit was even able to respond to the call I would be way the hell out of town.
If this were to happen, you could garantee that the Agency involved, the FBI and the FCC would be in a complete rampage to find out who and what kind of person or persons had the ability to pull it off!!!!!!!!
Oh yeah, By the way, I work with radios and computers at work....I won't tell ya what I do though.....
if ya already couldn't tell.....
I hope something like this never happens....
"They Call me Badintermod for a reason" |
Vernonott
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 06, 2001 - 7:19 pm: |
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All that work for a fist full of dollars. |
Hammunition
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 06, 2001 - 9:09 pm: |
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Badintermod: Id be careful, even in jest. The feds dont like bank robbery blue prints.
In regards to the 900 mhz systems. I once pondered the idea of a hacker disabling our system after reading about that same story. I then learned about our 24 hour Motorola staff who service our 900 mhz and paging systems. The staff had already proactively addressed this matter. According to a tech, the unit could effectively re-establish communications within minutes or even prevent any such attempt. Apparently specialized software alerts about the intended hack immediately. During simulated attacks the software was effective in preventing a halt in communications. I am not very saavy in this area but I think that our department is quite conventional and prepared to thwart any such attempt to disable our communications. I dont think its entirely impossible but I think its highly unlikely with what our agency has in place. I also have experienced communications failure and I assure you there was no panic. Procedures ensure that every squad can be effectively dispatched to calls for service with just a single call to a fire station. No secrets handed out there.
But dont rule out counter measures utilized by the private banking industry. In major cities, banking security is more effective than law enforcement. Gone are the days of Fred the 80 year old bank security guard. Also, dont count out the renegade witnesses who will have no problem following you while updating your location on cellular phone. Bank robbers arent very lucky these days. |
Long Bow
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 06, 2001 - 10:25 pm: |
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Hey Badintermod,
I guess only a couple of us out here know why you know how to do this. |
Badintermod
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 06, 2001 - 11:43 pm: |
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even with specialized software. If the radios in the field are not able to make the digital handshake with the trunking system via the control channels, The System WILL go into Failsoft mode. In Failsoft mode the system acts as a conventional repeater system. (That Is the backup plan used by the new type 2 systems). Failsoft works ok, but it is useless against someone who is familiar with Motorola systems and knows what they are doing.
An example of this happened in 1996 when Sacramento County Sheriffs Dept Had their Entire Trunking system and Mobile data terminal system COMPLETELY SHUT DOWN for 3 days!!!!! All this was caused by a 18 year old High School senior that had way too much free time on his hands. While SSD main system was shut down, the dispatcher told all the units in the field to go to the backup Clemars (California Law Enforcement Mutual aid radio service)system to recieve their calls. Within 15 seconds of the dispatcher making this announcement, the subject showed up on Clemars and "belched" several times. Then he proceeded to block all calls between dispatch and units in the field. And this was supposed to be one of there backup systems!!!!! not very effective!!!.
When this happened the Motorola staff had very little they could do to fix the problem. AT first they thought it was an internal problem with their system or software. It didn't take long to realize it was from an outside source. They Turned their efforts over to 800mhz direction finding equipment to try to locate the source of the intereference. They were very unsuccessfull at doing so. It turned out that the 18 year old was using more than one remote sites that were controlled remotely. Very smart Kid!!!
This interference started on Friday, January 5th 1996 and He was finally caught on Sun, January 7th.
Here is how he was caught:
This kid was stupid enough to go to a payphone and call the dispatcher on the phone. He called to bragg about what he was able to do and taunted the agency about not being able to stop it, he was on the phone long enough for a unit to arrive at his location and place him in Handcuffs. For A kid that was smart enough to pull something like this off, should of Known better then to call the agancy on the phone!!!! Real brain fart there!!!
This Kid is now is now one of the best Network Engineers in the Sacramento Area, He Also has done some part time work for E.V.E setting up data terminals in patrol cars. Now thats funny!! |
badintermod
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 06, 2001 - 11:53 pm: |
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Hey Long Bow,
waaaaaazzzzzzzuuuuuuuuppppppp!!!!!!!! |
Tech181
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 06, 2001 - 11:57 pm: |
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I seem to recall seeing a post elsewhere regarding a similar situation where one such unlucky teenager got in deep doo-doo for that. :-)
Steve
Tech181
Tech181@copperelectronics.com |
bruce
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 07, 2001 - 10:02 am: |
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he must have had a lot money know the system and have a ton of radios we use 4 control ch here in pinellas county and st pete uses 4 more to jam this system would take 8 radios since our officers can switch between systems our shop has the manpower we dont use a contractor and means to quickly track a interfering signal i doubt they could pull it off here and if tried would be caught and our sheriff would go for the max under the law.
not smart to try.... period. |
Badintermod
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 07, 2001 - 12:03 pm: |
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The Kid who pulled it off in Sacramento got off very very lucky!!! For some reason the FCC or federal prosecuters never got involved with the case. This left the local authorities stuck with the case. The Local district attorney had are hard time trying to decide what to charge the subject with. Because the feds didn't take the case He did not have the jurisdiction to prosecute under title 47 federal communication laws. After researching all of the laws on the california books at the time, the DA was only able to charge the defendant with 148.A pc, which
is interfereing with an Officer's ability to complete his duties, a misdemeanor. The kid wound up getting only a very very short sentence and three years probation.
The District Attorney was outraged by how little he was legally able to do. He made several complaints to the Federal Authorities for not getting involved with the case. |
Vernonott
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 07, 2001 - 3:54 pm: |
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For some reason I feel like if I pulled a stunt like that,they would have given me thirty years at hard labor.I don't have an angel on my shoulder. |
Hammunition
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 07, 2001 - 3:58 pm: |
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Badintermod, funny you mention that about the FCC. I have no faith in them basically because I think they are very inept college grads who havent the slight inclination towards proactive law enforcement.
Here in Orlando there are about 3 active Pirate radio stations. One is called 95 LIVE and even has a webpage. They sell advertisement and blatantly use profanity. Pure racketeering.
2 years ago I worked a case where one of the DJ's terrorized 3 females live on the air. I ultimately arrested the DJ that same night and executed a search warrant in his studio. I seized a truck load of illegal FM radio transmission equipment. I contacted the FCC directly with ALL of the evidence and photographs of the the studio. The case was laid out on a silver platter for SLAM DUNK prosecution. The FCC agent hemmed and hawed and basically told me they would do NOTHING. The DJ plead to misdemeanors and obtained a court order to have his equipment returned. He was interviewed by a local liberal rag paper and called the entire investigation politically motivated harassment and indicated he would get his equipment back and start up the operation again. He did and is still in operation to this day.
Our current FCC administration is truly in need of review by competent authority. |
Badintermod
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 07, 2001 - 5:08 pm: |
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I agree. What is the purpose of having federal laws the govern radio communication if the guys that have the jurisdiction to prosecute, do nothing?? Both of these guys were in direct violation of Title 47, section 301 and 333. And there was more than enough evidence for Federal prosecutors to get a conviction. By doing nothing they make it very difficult for local district attorneys from handling these type of cases. Although I believe there are a few states that have past public safety radio intereference laws that gives the local guys the ability to do thier Job when the feds aren't doing thiers!!! |
Matt aka. Blue Flash
| | Posted on Thursday, November 08, 2001 - 4:02 am: |
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It is no worse then the NIS, we have been told that unless you have more then seven Illegals (and alot of times you will need more) NIS will not even talk to you. |
dan
| | Posted on Thursday, November 08, 2001 - 8:44 pm: |
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Badintermod sounds like he has to much time on his hands.
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badintermod
| | Posted on Thursday, November 08, 2001 - 10:52 pm: |
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Actually I dont. I work full time during the day time mon-fri and go to College in the evening. My next semester starts next week and I will have much less free time on my Hands. I Took up Network engineering as my major. TWO MORE YEARS LEFT!!!!! AUGHHHHH!!! |
707
| | Posted on Saturday, November 10, 2001 - 2:01 pm: |
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Badintermod- I just wonder how the "bank robber" would feel if his granny happened to suffer a cardial infarction while the 911 system is shut down, and dies because she can't call in. Whoops..too bad, Granny, I needed to rob this bank. Sorry 'bout your luck!
Hammunition.. Just how did this pirate "terrorize" the individuals? No one is forced to listen to the station. Sounds like you let some flustered, chests heaving, teary-eyed women get the better of your judgement.
You violated his rights by breaking in and confiscating equipment you had NO authority over. One thing I DON'T respect is overzealous "law enforcement" officers who get off-track and out of their realm of authority in a fit of sanctimonious rage. Had I been the individual in question, I believe I would have leveled a civil lawsuit against you personally and your department and likely won.
You used the term "racketeering" to describe the pirate operation. That is improper, unless the radio station was somehow forcing the advertisers to spend money through extortion. In fact, if the advertisers voluntarily paid money for spots, then they are guilty of collusion, in a sense, for helping to support the operation of the illegal station. Why didn't you storm into their places of business with indictment in hand to confiscate the merchandise mentioned on their illegal radio ads?
You say "Our current FCC administration is truly in need of review by competent authority."
I say "Hammunition's position is truly in need of review by competent authority."
As a former broadcast radio engineer (turned IT engineer/manager), I have total respect for FCC rules and regulations, having followed them to the letter for years. As a citizen, I say "let the FCC police the airwaves, and Local police/sheriff worry about important things like Burglars, Rapists, Murderers and Drug Dealers." That's what you get paid to do.
If the local radio station engineers find the guy to be a nuisance, they are much better equipped to document interference and illegal operations and more likely to get results from the FCC.
Just my opinion. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Monday, November 12, 2001 - 5:30 pm: |
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badintermod I think I remember someone did something like that in his town and got into trouble when he was a teenager. they called him bad for that reason. Ring a bell He-He |
Tech181
| | Posted on Monday, November 12, 2001 - 11:51 pm: |
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Matt,
But if you come across an illegal in the NCIC Deported Felon File, they (INS) are there post haste. This surely has nothing to do with radios huh?
Steve
Tech181
Tech181@copperelectronics.com |
Hammunition
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 13, 2001 - 5:14 pm: |
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Dear 707: this Pirate radio station was an unlicensed business that compensated employees to obtain revenues to which no state or federal taxes were paid. This income was used to maintain an unlawful enterprise. These employees also recieved direction to assist in numerous crimes against persons. RACKETEERING. Enlighten yourself by reading Florida Statute Statute 895.02 in the process of removing your foot from your mouth.
This person invited 3 females into what they thought was a legal radio station. The "terrorizing" occurred when he physically forced them to disrobe despite them pleading for him to stop. All of this activity was recorded on his computer. Also captured was the group punching another male visitor in the studio when he attempted to intervene in what he perceived to be a sexual attack. These were the misdemeanors he plead to, so he could avoid violating his felony probation.
I entered his studio with a search warrant signed by a circuit court judge to recover clothing removed from these victims and the tape of the incident. During my lawful duties, I located evidence of an illegal radio station in plain view. I notified the FCC and they declined to respond. The wisdom of this decision was beyond comprehension.
Recently, a government entity was made aware of the FCC's disregard for obvious criminal violations. Someone who knows someone made a call to DC and a fire was lit under the local FCC's proverbial behind. Suddenly they are interested in obtaining copies of all of my old case work. AMAZING!!!
Im amazed that you feel these women somehow deserved this treatment. As a compassionate person and a law enforcement officer, I dont share your views toward women. If a woman cries and complains about a crime, I DO MY JOB and react accordingly. If I violated this person's right, why was my judgement supported by the judge who accepted this animal's guilty plea? Im sure that if this happened to your wife or daughter you would graciously thank me for my "fit of sanctimonious rage". I hope you really dont feel this way about women. |
707
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 13, 2001 - 11:52 pm: |
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Gee Ham...Perhaps I did make the mistake of working with your rather spartan description of the event. This was not a question of illegal radio activity, but of sexual harrassment and assault, possibly battery. Interesting that in Florida it is only a misdemeanor to physically force a woman to disrobe. Sounds like you guys need to work more on civil statutes a bit. Apology accepted. |
annonymous
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 14, 2001 - 12:39 am: |
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All the more reason we need vigilantes with assault rifles!! You Johnny Law types go by the book and dirt bags walk with a stinging wrist. |
bruce
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 14, 2001 - 1:27 pm: |
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Not fair, sorry annonymous, i work all day at a jail your asault on law enforcsment shows a total lack of understanding of what the guys in blue go through. If you think that for one min that our officers want these tail holes on the street then you are wrong.
bruce
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Hammunition
| | Posted on Thursday, November 15, 2001 - 9:56 am: |
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707, As a law enforcement officer I can only enforce CRIMINAL statutes. I am prohibited from involving myself in CIVIL matters.
Sexual Harrassment is a civil matter and I am unable to assist anyone with such a civil suit. Victims complaining of sexual harassment need to consult with a civil attorney. But feel free to come down to sunny Florida to work on our "CIVIL STATUTES".
The suspect didn't ASSAULT (threaten). The suspect physically touched the victims, he BATTERED them.
Maybe you might be referring to Sexual Battery. This did not occur. The females were just forced to disrobe. Howard Stern usually asks women to do this of their own will. Obviously this guy wanted to be like Stern. The definition for sexual battery is a bit explicit for this forum but I assure you that a sexual battery didn't occur. The criteria for sexual battery is the same in EVERY state in the US.
I have had women grab my behind, but I assure you that I would not be a victim of sexual battery if I did not approve of the activity. The same would go for a drunk male who grabbed a woman's breast in a bar. Just a battery. I think the definition for Sexual Battery is quite acceptable in its current form and no modification is needed.
Somehow I have gotten your goat. I assure you that as a cop, I dont care what anyone does in the radio arena unless it violates someone in an unacceptable manner. No one likes when I come to shackle them in cuffs, but I assure you that they have earned that opportunity by their own actions. Are you sure we are on opposite sides of the table?
The only point I tried to make is that the FCC establishment is kind of lame. Guys can set up a huge blatant racketeering operation and the FCC wont go near them. But the FCC WILL show up to HAM shows and harass easy targets. I find that mentality to be COWARDLY. What does it say when you can enter ANY major US city and turn the FM dial to pirate stations spattering contempt towards law and order. On the flip side the FCC geeks patrol Ham gatherings, who are total peaceful folk who take pride in maintaining antiquated technology. Most Hammers would give their left arm to help out law enforcement during states of emergency. I wonder if the Pirates would do the same. |
bruce
| | Posted on Thursday, November 15, 2001 - 10:27 pm: |
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Anyone going to the tampabay hamfest last year was treated to the fcc AND state tax collectors wanting their cut of sales. Only ONE pirate station has been busted in florida and that was in tampa but he didnt only step on toes he HIT them with a hammer
bruce |
707
| | Posted on Friday, November 16, 2001 - 7:51 pm: |
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Ham- First, I was a bit hasty in condemning your actions without knowing the whole story. It seemed you were saying the DJ had terrorized them, literally, on the air, which I took to mean he said something about them personally or perhaps gave out their names/addresses or somehow violated their privacy. I took your initial story to mean your primary focus was on busting this pirate. There was certainly much more behind the scenes there.
I don't advocate irresponsible behaviour on the air, and it seems the line has blurred now with Stern and the many morning shows trying to emulate that "cutting edge" flavor. Of course, I'm also the first to suggest to anyone who hears something disagreeable on the air that they simply reach for the knob and find a different station. That goes for the CB or Amateur band as well. That volume control and channel selector are the best censor available to us as radio users. Lets hope it stays that way.
I understand why some pirates do what they do, because it is virtually impossible as a private citizen to play DJ on the air legally, because of costs, red tape and the wait period for even a LP fm station grant. "Pirating For Dollars" though, is wrong.
Some pirates would probably abstain from any constructive help during emergencies, and their help would likely not be missed unless they happen to have a really big presence on the dial.
I'm sure some of those pirates who really feel they are providing a service to their local audience are much like Amateurs, and would gladly dedicate resources to an emergency situation.
Yes, the FCC is pretty lame in their enforcement of regulations pertaining to personal 2-way radio, amateur and CB. They are too busy with their limited personnel out in the field levying exhorbitant fines against broadcasters who fail to properly file their records of Public Service announcements or forgot to run an EAS test last Thursday. |
Hammuntion
| | Posted on Monday, November 19, 2001 - 10:08 am: |
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707- totally agree with you about the FCC tackling the easier target. Why would you waste time working a case against a street saavy, gun toting thug when you can simply walk into a corporate office and review records? How sad that the FCC has allowed this to become the norm. But in America, its all about money.
Although I can see why some amateur DJ's would consider operating a Pirate station, I prefer a system of rules and legal procedures before such activity occurs. Rules may be a pain, but rules keep America running. Rules say no one is allowed to steal from you or hurt you physically. Thousands of hardworking companies followed the rules for many years to get where they are today. Its a slap in the face of these hardworking Americans when the FCC hammers them with staggering fines and ignores the illegal actions of Pirate stations who flip a switch do as they please. There is nothing admirable about an individual who takes the easy road in search of a fast buck.
How would you feel if you sat through 4 to 6 years of college. Long nights studying, working minimum wage jobs to get by with barely enough sleep to stay sane (been there!). One day you stand proudly and accept your diploma. Then the man behind you says, "Yeah, I found a loophole and only had to walk on campus one day a month and check out a book to get the same degree." Sure, its illegal but only a few people do it and the college would rather not address it. Let's just give him the same diploma you will spend the next 6 years making payments on, for FREE. Then the same guy beats you out for the job you dreamed about getting for the last 6 years. But we should admire this guy, he is creative and just a really "cool dude".
Just something to think about. |
707
| | Posted on Monday, November 19, 2001 - 1:38 pm: |
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Ham- good point. Rules are definitely needed. That's why I don't advocate radio piracy on the broadcast bands. "Pirating For Dollars" where a station invests time and resources, plus punches out a substantial signal, is totally wrong. If they have the time and resources to seriously compete, then they must have the resources to file for a CP and do business legally.
From the amateur DJ pirate perspective, looking at it as a hobby rather than a moneymaking endeavor, the market share he might be able to tear away from corporate radio is miniscule and transient for the most part. Most "Amateur DJ pirates" do well to cover a couple of miles, and the listenership is of more a "novelty". In the case of a smaller market scenario, if a small-time pirate takes a majority listenership away from a licensed station, that only says the licensed station is NOT serving the community with programming that is palatable or appropriate for the majority audience. Again, I'm not proposing to throw out the rulebook, but just giving some insight, garnered from personal experience. Unlicensed, Non-profit Microcasting(up to 10w at perhaps 50-100ft. maximum HAAT) without causing interference to licensed stations, nor any implied "ownership" of the frequency, should be legal, in my opinion. How to go about allocating a broadcast band frequency slot for this? That would be up to the FCC ;-) |
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