| Author |
Message |
    
Tech291
Moderator
Username: Tech291
Post Number: 27
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, January 02, 2005 - 9:20 pm: | 
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hope everytings oK this time! |
Dx431
Advanced Member
Username: Dx431
Post Number: 964
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, January 02, 2005 - 9:38 pm: |
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Aww, bummer!
Hope everything is ok.....
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Bruce
Senior Member
Username: Bruce
Post Number: 1972
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 02, 2005 - 9:53 pm: |
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291 as sad as the problem is your post is a hoot! |
Lowpowerhal
Intermediate Member
Username: Lowpowerhal
Post Number: 379
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 03, 2005 - 7:14 pm: |
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Everything is Ok Except 300 ohm Line on the dipole, No plastic just bare wires. Talk about a scare. Dipole is in the trees.It hit one Jumped to diople and split the other tree. No loss of equitment. Thought Imax took hit and looked split but freezing rain made it look split. |
Tech808
Moderator
Username: Tech808
Post Number: 4460
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 04, 2005 - 7:29 am: |
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Hal,
From the sound of it hitting you when we were on Echo Link I figured you would not have anything left.
Glad you had the Poly Phaser in line for your other antenna.
Happy you are still on the air. 
Lon
Tech808
CEF808
N9OSN |
Chad
Member
Username: Chad
Post Number: 63
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 04, 2005 - 8:51 am: |
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Lon,
Should we all start compiling storm tips for posting later this year when lightning season comes around?
I have found a local channel, GREAT BUNCH OF GUYS! Trying to get them to join up! Their skill levels range from nil to advanced, I am amazed the people who don't have ANY protection. One kid is in high school and is scraping it together on pennies at a time. I gave him my spare rod, clamp and wire to protect himself. I like to ask those whom are unprotected if they would let off a hand gernade in their home! That makes them think! I've been hit (bodily) 3 times, It's not fun at all. I have lightning protection but I know I can do better.
Wanna get a tip thread to keep everyone safe?
Chad |
Bob_p
Advanced Member
Username: Bob_p
Post Number: 635
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 04, 2005 - 5:22 pm: |
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Very Glad to hear your OK Hal, I really do not understand how your getting hit like this, but glad to hear the Dipole was the only damage.
All the best
Bob |
Allagator
Advanced Member
Username: Allagator
Post Number: 526
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 04, 2005 - 8:27 pm: |
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Hal im going to move up there with my mother-inlaw and have her try out my new antenna setup !!!! HE HE HE !!!!
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Tech808
Moderator
Username: Tech808
Post Number: 4476
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 05, 2005 - 8:49 am: |
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Chad,
Check out the topic titled:
RADIO EQUIPMENT & GROUNDING
It is located in the:
Ask The Tech Area of the Forum
» Installations
» General
» RADIO EQUIPMENT & GROUNDING
Hope this helps,
Lon
Tech808
CEF808
N9OSN
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Pig040
Advanced Member
Username: Pig040
Post Number: 625
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 05, 2005 - 9:03 am: |
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If you were an evil doctor, and needed power to make your beast work, Hals would be the place to go! |
Lowpowerhal
Intermediate Member
Username: Lowpowerhal
Post Number: 380
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 07, 2005 - 8:08 pm: |
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Ok this is my opinion what saved the radio shack this time. Or the house.
Some of you know im good for getting hit by lighting, lost all my radio equipment last year, and a very expensive lesson.
Some might ask why i get hit so much? My theory : Elevation high on a hill.#2 Plus my house is surrounded by tall oak trees. #3 Have underground water ways or wells.
I contacted Tech 808 and quized him up and down on his set up, He had post on grounding. (fokes my set up was grounded) But I needed more info.
So Wife and I went to see Tech 808 set up. We got there and learned a whole bunch.I got home and changed my grounding system.
But the real thing thats saved me this time (yes redoing the ground set up helped) But a Poly Phaser in line saved all my new and expensive equipment.
I bought the Poly Phaser from COPPER and its was a cheap investment to protect a lot of equipment. Well worth buying. Belive me!
I had 3 strikes the other night and the dipole still up there , and fried the insulation off the 300 ohm line. Trees not to good though.
Thought i would post this to all of you thats been asking questions.
Lowpowerhal and Rosebud
CEF136 and CEF 222
kc0svc and kc0tdk
73's |
Alsworld
Advanced Member
Username: Alsworld
Post Number: 885
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Friday, January 07, 2005 - 11:38 pm: |
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Glad to hear the Poly Phaser saved your equipment this time Hal. You and lightning strikes are becoming way too familiar. It's nice to know that a product works so well.
Alsworld |
Tech833
Member
Username: Tech833
Post Number: 58
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, January 08, 2005 - 6:07 pm: |
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I hate to be the one who says "I told you so", but...
Do you guys remember all the flack you gave me over my statement that a Polyphaser WILL save your butt in a lightning hit? Do you remember all the 'know it alls' that told me I was full of it, that the only way to protect yourself was to disconnect the coax and put the end in a glass jar every time a storm approached? Do you remember???
WELL NOW IS MY CHANCE TO TELL ALL YOU 'KNOW IT ALL's to SHUT UP AND LISTEN! You may actually learn something!! Praise God that Hal listened, and learned. His equipment was saved. What would have happened if he did not listen to me, and listened to the 'experts' that said to put his coax in a glass jar instead? Burned house, that's what. What if he wasn't home to disconnect the cable? Burned up equipment, that's what.
However, Hal listened to me, and he learned how to do it from Lon. Now his radio gear is safe.
I normally do not get angry, but this time I really did. I almost quit this forum over the whole grounding issue, ask Lon. He talked me down from the ledge (so to speak) and if not for Lon, I would have left long ago. I was THAT frustrated over the whole thing.
Hal, I am so sorry for your lightning damage to your trees and cable, but I am thankful you posted it here so I can shove it in the faces of the 'know it alls' that told me I did not know what I was talking about.
Memo to the 'experts' that troll the forum- Looks like Lon and Hal and I get the last laugh. So, from now on, feel free to leave me alone and go be an 'expert' somewhere else. Hal's life was potentially saved here, and potentially lost if you 'experts' had your way. For that, I cannot forgive. |
Tech808
Moderator
Username: Tech808
Post Number: 4511
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, January 08, 2005 - 7:23 pm: |
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Tech833,
YOU DA MAN
Your many years of professional experience and knowledge as a well respected licensed engineer has helped me and in return has now helped Lowpowerhal and many other Copper Forum Members.
I am very thankful that that you have chosen the Copper Forum to offer / donate your personal time to help others.
There are not many Professionals out there who are willing to donate their personal time to do this.
Thank You!
Lon
Tech808
CEF808
N9OSN |
Bruce
Senior Member
Username: Bruce
Post Number: 2028
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, January 08, 2005 - 7:28 pm: |
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833 GET OFF THE FENCE ANT SAY WHAT YOU REALY MEAN (LOL)
I had 3 hits at the old house and 2 here i use polyphasers and they HELP
BUT it takes thousands of volts to jump 1 INCH and lighting can travel 20 miles ( 1,300,000 inches ) SO HOW MANY VOLTS DOES IT TAKE TO FRY A SOLID STATE RADIO ? 1.3 BILLION PLUS! 833 is correct if you love your radio DISCONNECT THAT COAX! |
Yankee
Intermediate Member
Username: Yankee
Post Number: 364
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, January 08, 2005 - 8:48 pm: |
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833, I'm an old salt on the air, 42 years. I'm really interested in knowing how good of a protection these polyphasers are, the advertised price is a fair price if it really works. Please advise the best point to install it in the system.
Thanks in advance. |
Lowpowerhal
Intermediate Member
Username: Lowpowerhal
Post Number: 381
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, January 08, 2005 - 10:12 pm: |
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Tech 833 Thank you so much for being here for us all. You are correct in saying it might of saved my life. If the poly Phaser was not in line i might not be responding to all of you.
Yankee the price of knowledge gos a long way! And wisdom is earned . As for your question ( the advertised price is a fair price if it really works.) Well im living proof that it works and saved the radios. As i said a pretty cheap investment.
What im trying to say is Thanks to Tech 833 and all the other Techs for the wisdom and knowledge in helping us all (THANKS)
Lowpowerhal
CEF#136
kc0svc
73's |
Bruce
Senior Member
Username: Bruce
Post Number: 2029
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, January 08, 2005 - 10:54 pm: |
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yankee
In 6 years ive been out at the jail we have trusted our radio system where i work now ONLY to polyphasers Others tried FAILED to protect or were blown apart. Now all our jail radio antennas use polyphasers they are great protection BUT WILL NOT STOP A DIRECT HIT! PLEASE REALIZE THAT!!!!! |
Yankee
Intermediate Member
Username: Yankee
Post Number: 366
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 09, 2005 - 1:51 am: |
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Thanks Bruce. |
Racer X (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Sunday, January 09, 2005 - 7:37 am: |
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Grounding is a safety issue first, and everything else second. The company that makes the devices talked about here has some literature available on their website that details lightning protection and is INVALUABLE reading.
Here's a link about Ham Radio Station protection which is directly applicable:
http://www.polyphaser.com/ppc_PEN1016.asp
And here are some other very informative articles:
http://www.polyphaser.com/ppc_pen_home.asp
Tech833 - I've been fighting the good fight for years on CB message boards and newsgroups and I can tell you that there are some people who really resent that anyone may know more than they do about anything. I take it all with a grain of salt and still try to help where I can.
I appreciate your input to this forum a great deal and I'm sure everyone else does as well. Don't let a few people get in the way of helping others who appreciate your knowledge, experience, and wisdom.
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Tech833
Moderator
Username: Tech833
Post Number: 940
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, January 09, 2005 - 11:09 am: |
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Thank you for the 'flowers' guys. I was not fishing for acclaim, I assure you. I wanted to make my point, and my mood was just right.
No Polyphaser will protect you without proper grounding. Now, WITH proper grounding, a Polyphaser will indeed save you, even in a direct hit in almost every case. The whole idea behind a Polyphaser is to isolate the equipment from the antenna (no continuity through the Polyphaser, reads 'open' with an ohm meter) and to provide a low impedance path to ground (ala arc tube). That is why the model must be chosen properly considering the lowest frequency used and the power level. That changes the inner components (cap value) in the Polyphaser.
Yankee, The point I have used over and over is- How do you think all those police, fire, commercial, etc. radios mounted on tall towers and on tall mountains stay on the air continuously even during lightning storms? Polyphasers! Many antennas have been hit and no equipment has been damaged on the hilltops I maintain. It stays on the air right through multiple strikes.
As an added benefit, the extra protection (isolation) of the Polyphaser also helps avoid strikes in some cases. Mostly, they just protect your gear and the building the gear is in. I.E., Your house!
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Yankee
Intermediate Member
Username: Yankee
Post Number: 368
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 09, 2005 - 2:52 pm: |
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833-Thanks for the advice Paul, looks like the next added item is a Polyphaser. Where is the best point to install it in the system? |
Lowpowerhal
Intermediate Member
Username: Lowpowerhal
Post Number: 383
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 09, 2005 - 8:54 pm: |
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Yankee Take a look at Lons setup under (ASK THE TECH) Under general installations and grounding.
My set up is done the same way as Lons is.Lon did very good at explaining ground and shows where polyPhaser are.
Also I might add seen Lon and Shirleys set up in person and was inpressed. safety is the up most important thing in radio , and to be safe.
I want to stress this issue, because a newcomers to cb and hams , I want you to be safe.
Lowpowerhal
CEF136
kc0svc
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Tech833
Moderator
Username: Tech833
Post Number: 945
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - 2:38 am: |
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Yankee.
Best place is right where your coax enters the building, and where your central ground is located.
My installation looks like this-
Picture a tower next to an equipment building. My house is about 20 feet away from the building. All cables are 1/2 inch and 7/8 inch Heliax.
O.K., All coax cables are routed properly and attached to the East face of the tower. The coax cables for all the equipment in the building (and mine in the house) comes off the tower to a cable bridge about 8 feet off the ground. The cables have ground kits attached to them right where they make the angle away from the tower to go horizontal to the building. The ends of the ground kits connect to the copper bus on the tower. That bus connects via 2/0 copper to the main ground rod lug on the tower leg#1.
Back to the cables. Where they enter the building, they terminate to N male connectors which connect to Polyphasers which are all mounted directly to a copper bus bar which is mounted on insulators (insulated from the wall) and connected to a 2/0 copper wire which runs down the wall to the building main ground rod, which is also bonded to the tower ground rod. So, picture this copper bar on 6 inch insulators with a big huge copper wire on one end and all these Polyphasers in a row along it. Now, each cable from there goes to the cable bridge inside the building and down to each rack where the equipment for that antenna is located. These people rent tower and building space from me!
For my equipment in the house, my cables connect to the Polyphaser rack, then run along the cable bridge to the back wall of the equipment building. Each cable then takes a bend and goes down the wall and into the 4 inch conduit which runs under the building, under the cement outside, and under my house. The cables are then routed to the wall box below my office and up the inside of the wall to the wall plate behind my desk. The UHF/VHF dual band antenna at the top of the tower has another Polyphaser under the house right under the wallbox too. Each cable is also grounded here with a thick copper wire which is also bonded to the main ground rod. Anyway, LMR 240 jumpers come up the wall and through the wall plate to each radio. The desk itself has a copper buss bar behind it that each radio is grounded to. This main equipment bus is grounded to the bond wire under the house with a thick copper wire.
I probably need to get pictures for you, but does that help? |
Yankee
Intermediate Member
Username: Yankee
Post Number: 369
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - 2:46 pm: |
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833=Yes Paul, thanks a bunch I understand now. |
Racer X (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - 3:56 pm: |
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Your descritption was nicely detailed, but seeing pictures would be great.
Question for you Tech833 - Did you consider using copper strap rather than cable? I've read that it's a better choice for RF grounding because it's got lower inductance due to it's high surface area. I also understand it's better able to handle large surges of current as it dissipates heat very quickly. |
Tech833
Moderator
Username: Tech833
Post Number: 947
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - 8:41 pm: |
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Yes, copper strap IS better for RF grounds, and also for lightning grounds if the strap is flat compared to the tower orientation. In my case, the strap would not work well due to the installation. Large stranded copper wire was the best bet.
I have used both, but on my home tower, I chose copper wire. |
