Copper Talk » Product Reviews » Amplifiers » Difference btween Tubes and Solid State « Previous Next »

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sal
Posted on Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 8:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

hi all
what the difference btween
Tubes and Solid State advice me which one u rec ?
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Bruce
Posted on Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 11:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Tubes are a waist for receivers and low power transmitters but work very well at high power.
Most CB radios abanded tubes 30 years ago.... with good reason.
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Bullet
Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2003 - 8:06 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

then again its hard to beat the sound of a good base radio thats plate modulated "without being overdone". they sound awesome!

if your a newbe go solid state in the future if you get the itch for the old the johnson vikings,brownings and trams are nice sounding rigs when run right.

at least thats my opion
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Galileo
Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2003 - 9:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think he is asking about amps, not radios...What is the difference as far as power and sound between tubes and solid state??? I know that in oder to run really HIGH power it takes tubes, but what are the diferences in the 200 to 500 watt range??? Thanks
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Bullet
Posted on Tuesday, October 14, 2003 - 2:01 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

oh sorry,

transister amps are really nice in some ways most have preamps built in that is a feature i like.

they are usually an instant on device whitch is convienent to use. and you dont have to really mess with them much other than fliping what ever switch you need to during operation of the unit.

theres no tunning/loading them up like in tube amps.

but alot of them are not very appliance friendly!

i have a little 2 pill transister amp that will flat tare up the phones and tv's of me and my neighbor.
and i run filters on my radio equipment and tv's plus rf chokes/hi pass filters on the tv's cables. and this is just a 150 watt amp!

my tube amps dont bother anything even at over 2kw
i nor my neighbor gets tvi using it.and my big beams only 20 ft high and 40 ft maybe from the ac line that feeds my neihbors house. at times it points dead into it!(when im talking S.E)

i personally think tube amps have a good sound and are more friendly to the stations conditions because of being able to tune them.

and if you use a good quality ham amp transmitt tube are the way to go.
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Adshar64
Posted on Tuesday, October 14, 2003 - 9:02 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Great Post I use a 1.5 kw tube amp and can watch the tv in my shack with it showing no effect audio or visual of course a clean ts850s driving is very helpful;ie; dirty in = filthy out.You wont get that on a solid state amp and solid state isnt up to the heavy usage a good tube-amp will handle.I have a nice 1.2kw solid state deal but keeping it cool and the 110 amps up to it was a task. Put them in the mobile where they belong and use tubes at home. You also get more sentimental over tubes like they are alive lol.
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mikefromms
Posted on Tuesday, October 14, 2003 - 11:14 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This is interesting. I had read something along these lines before about the tubes not bothering tv's and phones like the solid states. You'd think it would be just the opposite.

What about the KLV tube amps? I understand they are sold ready to use. Do you have to adjust them in anyway other than replace a tube when it blows? Is the KlV tube type less likely to cause tvi than the KLV solid state? Convince me.

mikefromms
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Tech808
Posted on Tuesday, October 14, 2003 - 11:28 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

mikefromms,

Read my Review on the KLV 1000.

We have been using it every day with NO Problems with TVI or anything else.

It is less than 3' from Computer and Phone jacks, and 5 other radios. Everyone who I or the 1st Sargant have made contact with, say the same thing LOUD & CLEAR.

I also use a KLV300 off of power supply and again NO Problems with either.

The KLV1000 has Great cooling and has performed flawlessly, hooked to the 1st sargant's TR696F SSB Base with a 2 watt dead key.

Just my thought's

Lon
Tech808
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Legend
Junior Member
Username: Legend

Post Number: 20
Registered: 12-2002
Posted on Wednesday, March 17, 2004 - 8:53 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello...

I am one of those unfortunates, who's radio get's into everything (T.V's, phones, ect...)

I am going to be making some changes to my equipment setup, including buying a Tube Type, as opposed to the transisterized that I run now.

I don't need anything as big as the KLV-1000. I am looking at the KLV-400, because it does about the amount of power that I am looking for.

Have any of you (especially techs) had any experience with this amp? Does it have the same low RFI qualities as the KLV-1000? It would truly be WONDERFUL if I could find an amp that had low interference, compared to my mobile Magnum whiich I have hooked up o the base now.

An info appreciated... Thanx.

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Highlander
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Username: Highlander

Post Number: 463
Registered: 12-2001
Posted on Wednesday, March 17, 2004 - 3:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have a KLV-400. It works great. My Imax 2000 is only about 20 feet from the TV antenna at that location, and I only get a little crosshatching on the VHF channels, no audio coming through. VHF-hi and UHF are not affected at all. I don't drive it very hard, so I'm sure that helps, keep the mic gain down at a reasonable level and you should be fine.
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Semo_rebel
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Username: Semo_rebel

Post Number: 62
Registered: 2-2004
Posted on Wednesday, July 14, 2004 - 8:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I used to live down the street from a guy some years back, and i am sure he was running tube type power. I was told he was pushing over 1kw. I could now watch tv or talk on the phone when he keyed up. He even came over my old Johnson Messenger 250 50th anniversery ed. with it turned off. My moms stereo downstairs would pick him up when it was off. He lived a block from me.

So saying that tubes dont give tvi just makes me laugh my butt off.
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Pig040
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Username: Pig040

Post Number: 496
Registered: 7-2003


Posted on Thursday, July 15, 2004 - 10:03 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

He must have been overmodulating or overdriving everything. I used to run 1k with a two element beam (pdl 2), and didnt come over anything except my junky computer speakers. Or maybe he had something going bad. Or maybe he was using a fiberglass antenna, I did have some bleeding problems with the fiberglass omni, but no problems with the aluminum.
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Geekster
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Username: Geekster

Post Number: 71
Registered: 6-2004


Posted on Thursday, July 15, 2004 - 4:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Interesting,

There are plenty of tube amps being built still today. Are tubes better than transistors? I don't know. I guess there are two sides to every story. I run a Kenwood TS-520 and have other solid state rigs I like 'em both.

Tubes eventually need replaced where transistors last longer. You should be able to get good gain and reliablilty with transistor types.
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Bruce
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Username: Bruce

Post Number: 1366
Registered: 9-2003
Posted on Thursday, July 15, 2004 - 6:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Tubes still hold a edge in high power otherwise they are extink
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Hollowpoint445
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Username: Hollowpoint445

Post Number: 116
Registered: 6-2004
Posted on Friday, July 16, 2004 - 2:51 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I believe I remember hearing that the Soviet Union used tubes for the front end of all of their military recievers because of their higher tolerance of surge voltage. Even the radios in their combat jets used tube front ends. The reasoning was a better resistance to EMP.

As far as amps go, RF tubes (not TV sweep tubes) are more tolerant of abuse than transistors and will last a LONG time if used conservatively. They also have a cleaner output than a solid state amp because they use tuned circuits that supress harmonics. That's why tube amps need to be tuned for the frequency used and solid state amps don't.
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Capt_hook
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Username: Capt_hook

Post Number: 42
Registered: 6-2004
Posted on Saturday, July 17, 2004 - 5:49 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

just sit down in front of your radio and look at your radio and say if it was not for tube radios you would not be here!!!!!!
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Bruce
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Username: Bruce

Post Number: 1371
Registered: 9-2003
Posted on Saturday, July 17, 2004 - 9:37 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yep we would not be here ......
 yesterday
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Audiomonster
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Username: Audiomonster

Post Number: 13
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Wednesday, September 08, 2004 - 12:56 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gentlemen:
I understand your viewpoints between solid state, and vacum tube power. I also gather that some of you are having trouble with interference with your neighbors, like tv's, and radios, and microwaves talking, and the whole gambit of undesirable side effects of you blowing smoke and kicking the cat on the radio, while transmitting.
The problem is "HARMONICS", the best way to deal with the problem and still be fully operational, is to use a tube type transmitter, because it must be tuned, and by tuning the transmitter it is coupled to amplify your transmitter freq and not so much the harmonic freqs, some amps do better jobs than others as far as tuning out harmonics, and amplifiing only the primary frequency generated. I have found that tube amps with two or multiple of two number of tbes in front end "driver stage of the amp do better in canceling out harmonics better than odd number tube of a driver stage of the vacum tube transmitter amp, this is due to the "push pull ,cancellation effect of other than primary frquecy being tuned". Solid state if very broadbanded, and does not have the ability to distinguish between the harmonic and the primary freqs, although by default the primary is amplified the most over the harmonic value.This is due to the fact it is not a very tightly tuned circuit.
It boils down to this as long as the primary radio frequency contains harmonics, and then amplified it will be trashy after being amplified by the amp. (Garbage in Garbage out).
Now there is a way to reduce these unwanted problems, you can use a low pass TVI filter between your radio and your amp, and this will attentuate the level of unwanted harmonic frequencies to be amplified by your amplifier, you may need to run more than one tvi trap to clean up the signal enough so that your neighbor is a little less agitated, also you can ground your steel guy wires so that they don't act as an antenna to x-mit harmonic type freqs.
Now for you guys that are giving the neighbors phone a fit. You can install a .01mf disk capacitor between the two primary wires, in his phone box, this will take rf leakage to ground that is picked up by the phone line, however there is absolutely nothing that can be done about cordless phones recieving someone talking on a radio, other than working out a schedule with your neighbor on a time alotment for both of you to follow.
Hope this helps some of you, as always 73's and God bless. NNN0WAW/NNN0GAY8 US NAVY MARINE CORPS MARS
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Bruce
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Username: Bruce

Post Number: 1539
Registered: 9-2003
Posted on Wednesday, September 08, 2004 - 5:07 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Audiomonster

A good solid state amp is as good as a good tube amp PEROID. the old TUNED IN - TUNED OUT cross nutralized tube amps ..... like the 829B or a pair of 807's was clean and had low harmonic output even run in class B. Tube amps of that time were narrow banded and had to be retuned even on bands like 10 meters as you shifted accross the band. Todays broadband amps are just as clean just look at FCC rules say 1947 and 2004 as to the cleaness of a transmitter. MOST CB AMPS NO EFFORD HAS BEEN MADE TO SUPRESS ANY HARMONIC OR CLOSE IN NOISE. "INBAND" noise is a problem too you can only get X-DB of cleaness past that the sum and diffrences and all little bits of noise will appear on the output. This is a reason that amps run other that in a linear mode " SPLATTER" and the more non-linear the more trash you get........ untill you get to a square wave and it has almost unlimited trash. Bottom line MOST interferances today are because the home device is poorly sheilded and has limited over load not the CB/HAM amp ...... if its run CORECTLY. Filtering the amp is ALWAYS a wise move and high pass filtering a TV set will help with the over load ....... every bit can help. Like most ive had problems with home devices in the past ..... one got nasty but common sence usaly can fix the problems and filtering both ends can help quite a bit. NOW CORDLESS PHONES are part 15 devices and as such are not protected limiting your on the air time is ok but if your LEAGAL ( HAM ) its the owners problem not yours...... even at 100 watts I have no problems with them and everyone around here uses them.

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DeathBYTriodes (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Wednesday, December 08, 2004 - 4:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ahhhhh just one 3cx15000a7,,,or 64 pills,,,,ahhh,,,why take all the pills when you can have just one nice big piece of steel!!!!
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Bruce
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Username: Bruce

Post Number: 1851
Registered: 9-2003
Posted on Wednesday, December 08, 2004 - 7:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

DeathBYTriodes

I have 3 - 811's in my amp and no way to power it on 80-15 meters. EVEN for moonbounce i ran 2 4cx250b's there is little reason to have a 30 kw final or 64 pills ..... except as braging rights
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Racer X (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Thursday, December 09, 2004 - 7:14 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bruce - Ain't more better? It ain't hardly worth running a linear if'n you don't dim the lights around the neighborhood when you key it up! How are you gonna melt the ice off the antenna in the winter if you aren't running decent amounts of power? Besides, I already got kids, so I don't need to worry about self sterilization by excessive RF.
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Bruce
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Username: Bruce

Post Number: 1852
Registered: 9-2003
Posted on Thursday, December 09, 2004 - 1:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

More is not better Right now i cannot run 120 high current or 220 into my shack ( code problem ) but it is being worked on I have still in the box a Ameritron al-811 amp which one day will finish off my HF station .... My home made 300+ watt 10 meter amp is class c and running over 300 watts of FM is fine in the car but 100 at the house is more than enough. No TVI no problems ....
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Racer X (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Thursday, December 09, 2004 - 4:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I agree with you Bruce, I was just trying to illustrate absurdity by being absurd.

How do you like the AL-811? I've got an AL-811H I bought several years ago but have never used. I like that it works on 110v and is only 1/2 S-unit shy of legal limit. I also liked the $400 price tag and like new condition.
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Johnny Boy (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Saturday, December 11, 2004 - 8:08 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I would say we all got the T-shirt one time or another on the tvi, i have several amps, Power Deluxe-500, KLV-550,Dentron Clipperton QRO,ect-- I found all of this amps can be cleaned up,My power Deluxe would make a mess of everything, But found out you can clean them up from a C-class to AB-1 I did not lose any power output,my radio are galaxy, madison, Icom, Maco 5 ant. 85 feet to the boom, no problems with TVI, keep in mind i do run a filter,Drake Low pass,Good grounding system also,
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A 4CX20000a CAN Kill YOU! (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Saturday, December 11, 2004 - 1:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, I agree with ya to an extent Bruce, However, when channel 6 gets packed up with the big boys, I like to have that 3cx15ka7 to power up! 64 pills, nah, not me, Id rather have the tubes! Heck, I still run my old 12 tuber every now and then!!
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Bruce
Senior Member
Username: Bruce

Post Number: 1856
Registered: 9-2003
Posted on Saturday, December 11, 2004 - 1:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My al-811 was only put on 20 meters once and to do that i needed a 50 foot exstension cord. Even then with the ft-840 driving it i got 400+ watts out of it. Yes i like it and as soon as the problems are worked out in the new shack it will go on line. In 2005 i will be changing my antennas and adding 12 and 17 meters as stand alone dipoles a 10/11 meter vertical and beams for 2 fm ( the 14 elm one is here waiting to go up ) The only band i will not have at least 100 watts on will be 440 and i just dont need it.
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Patzerozero
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Username: Patzerozero

Post Number: 260
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Saturday, December 11, 2004 - 11:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

don't get upset with me, bruce, this is just a generalization-
many of the non-cbing hams i know underestimate the abilities of some heavy duty skiptalking cbers. they're not plugging those 10kw and 15kw steel tubed amps into the wall. they are going down to the driveway, driving their chevy trucks to an empty parking lot, or the beach (remember, i'm on an island here), or the dock at the end of the road, and double checking to make sure all the belts are on all 6 or 8 or 10 alternators and keying up their steel tubed AC MOBILES. and tvi? no problem, find a different spot tomorrow.
(i wonder which one of you unregistered guests was on the super bowl this afternoon making me wait for you to go 10-7 so i could talk. i might not be a big dog, but i certainly don't stay on the porch. of course not competing with 10kw is a no-brainer!)
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Bruce
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Username: Bruce

Post Number: 1864
Registered: 9-2003
Posted on Saturday, December 11, 2004 - 11:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

patzerozero

YOU CALL LONG ISLAND A ISLAND?

Heck when i left there in 1972 it has at least 5 MILLION people and was 120 miles long Larger than most countrys. Now Maby your right and the 10 kw of rf has cooked enough brains that they can no longer reproduce and at THAT point you will be alone ......

PS send them to ...... PINELLAS COUNTY FLORIDA

POP 1,000,000 retired yankees with nothing to do and one EX long lslander working ro keep them happy ...... at least the ones in JAIL.
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Racer X (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Sunday, December 12, 2004 - 5:36 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

With 10-15KW mobile I don't doubt their abilities, I doubt their sanity and their chromosomal integrity.

Scientists should study those people. I bet they have shorcomings that most people compensate by buying musclecars or Harleys.
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Highlander
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Username: Highlander

Post Number: 722
Registered: 12-2001
Posted on Sunday, December 12, 2004 - 9:04 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

When I tell people who aren't involved in radio hobbies about what keydowns are all about, they don't believe me! Then I show them some of the pics and videos of 70,000 watt mobiles they are absolutely blown away that people go to these kinds of extremes. Then I play the song "Bump It Down", by Sir Mix-a-lot (who is none other than "Prime-Minister" on the bowl, and the builder of SkullCracka Amps), and they just lose it...If you have never heard the song, it is hilarious, lot's of sound bites from the bowl and stuff.
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Bruce
Senior Member
Username: Bruce

Post Number: 1867
Registered: 9-2003
Posted on Sunday, December 12, 2004 - 6:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sorry but from what i've seen on the ham band INTELLIGENCE is inverse to power run.
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Patzerozero
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Username: Patzerozero

Post Number: 266
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Sunday, December 12, 2004 - 8:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

i've talked to sir mix a lot on the bowl some years ago when he went by the name 'big 5 in the northwest corner'...
yea, bruce, they're still reproducing at a high rate here. when i was 10, radio stn @ 1370 (now) was on a dirt road just 3 miles from my house in the middle of nowhere, in east patchogue. today there is no nowhere here, just the overflow from nyc. and No, don't anybody send anymore to pinellas county, i spend 2 vacations a year in n redington beach and cruise from largo to st pete beach, i only take a week at a time, the traffic on gulf blvd is horrendous right now! hey, i even remember when the new bridge wasn't even there at the clearwater end of rt 60 and us19 wasn't the long island expressway of fl but just a little ole 4 lane road. of course with the amount of time it took 'em to do us19, i think they're all related to whoever's been doing the LIE for the last 40 years!
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Plate Current Producer (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Monday, December 13, 2004 - 10:26 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah, for me, it's not so much the power, well, it is, cuz RF is addictive. I just love the challenge of building a monster box, say the 3CX15kA7, and seeing it work! Im not one to lock up the bowl, cuz even with 20kw, I can still get keyed on!!!! Then again, I still love the challenge, of talkin barefooted on LSB, and still talking across the country!!!

Worldwide, East Coast Control, workin this peter Dahl powered Eimac, and Im back outttttttt...
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Patzerozero
Intermediate Member
Username: Patzerozero

Post Number: 271
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Monday, December 13, 2004 - 2:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

PCP-i can make some noise on the bowl w/my 8 pill, and have been known to get in on my 2 pill driver-if they know ya at the other end, they'll respond, but ya know they didn't really hear ya, because the response isn't what you were talking about! i still like to hear my name in the hall of fame-makes my local ducks jealous, especially when they are bigger then me at present! when i hear the names funky station, painkiller, real black man, amongst others, then i know it's time to run & hide on 835! DX is addictive, if i had the $ i'd run 2 of those pieces of steel, but, hey, i know i can do what i gotta do on my channel so as long as those i've dxed to for 5-10-20-25 yrs ocassionally tell me I have the NE corner locked down, that's sufficient to fuel my addiction-for now!
so, whereabouts are you, roughly speaking, or have i already guessed?
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PLATE CURRENT PIMP (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Tuesday, December 14, 2004 - 2:32 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

HAHA, yeah, you prety muched almost guessed right! Im in the Garbage, been here for a few years, after leavin the buckeye...
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Racer X (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Tuesday, December 14, 2004 - 6:53 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Isn't Painkiller out of the Philly area? Or did he reside in the Philly area about five or six years ago while he was going to school? If it's the Painkiller I knew, he's a cool guy and a blast to chat with.
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Johnhenre
Member
Username: Johnhenre

Post Number: 69
Registered: 1-2004
Posted on Tuesday, December 14, 2004 - 9:11 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

NAIL AND HAMMER:: RIGHT ON THE NOSE,I'M A TUBE PERSON.ALSO A PILL MAN BUT HAVE NOT MASTERED HARMONIC'S IN PILLS YET EXCEPT GET OUT AWAY FROM THE PUBLIC. JOHN
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Patzerozero
Intermediate Member
Username: Patzerozero

Post Number: 275
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Tuesday, December 14, 2004 - 7:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

racer-don't know if he's from philly or not, but painkiller & his suburban have been out here on LI for at least 6 yrs now that i know of.
PCP-if you don't wanna go public, e-mail me if you get a chance.

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