| Author |
Message |
    
Gumball
New member
Username: Gumball
Post Number: 3
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Friday, October 22, 2004 - 2:47 pm: | 
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I am thinking about replacing my Mr.Coily on my Volvo 770. I use a Galaxy 93 with an X-Force 200HD.
Here's the key, I spend 95% of my time on CB ch.19.
Since I am not "broadbanding" or "skipping" I am curious how much difference I would see for MY LIMITED APPLICATION......would the difference be worth the time and money to change?
I would love to hear everyone's perspectives. |
Patzerozero
Intermediate Member
Username: Patzerozero
Post Number: 150
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, October 22, 2004 - 6:50 pm: |
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in your case, no.
i myself am interested in covering about 1mhz of bandwidth w/under 1.5:1 swr's, talking LONG distance AM/SSB skip and local with the ability to run large amounts of power. with no little wire wound coil, there is less to worry about burning out w/large open air coil. of course construction method also needs consideration as poor construction practices nullify everything else.
if your antenna works for what you're doing, why change it? unles you like to EXPERIMENT, as i do.... |
Tech808
Moderator
Username: Tech808
Post Number: 3910
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, October 23, 2004 - 5:51 am: |
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Gumball,
WELCOME TO THE COPPER FORUM!
If you are running a Single Antenna I would suggest the Astatic 3K Antenna they Very reasonable in Price and give you GREAT Performance.
http://www.copperelectronics.com/cgi-bin/checkitout/checkitout.cgi?catalogSTORE:CKIE:prodA70-05130+
I have replaced many Mr Coily, MM and Predator 10K antennas on Petes and KWs with the 3K and everyone has been very pleased with the overall performance of them over the other antennas they replaced.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Lon
Tech808
CEF808
N9OSN |
Gumball
New member
Username: Gumball
Post Number: 4
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Monday, October 25, 2004 - 10:58 pm: |
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Tech808:
Thanks for the answer, but I have never heard of that antenna (maybe I need to get out more....)
Just to make sure I understand - for ch.19, you're saying that the 3K is better than the Wilson 5000, and as good as/or better, than the 10K, and Coily? |
Wolverine
Intermediate Member
Username: Wolverine
Post Number: 242
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 26, 2004 - 4:15 am: |
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Unless you're running big time power, like 3,500 hundred watts rms and above, the Wilson antennas (Mag-mounts) are the best user friendly antennas
around. Especially if you have to remove your antenna from your vehicle everyday. The Preditor 10k antenna will out hear, and out transmit the wilson antennas, but you would have to mount the 10k on a 3-Pad mag-mount, just so the antenna doesn't blow off the roof at speeds over 50 mph, also the installation and removal of the 10k antenna and mount everyday, can become tedious after awhile. Hope this helps.
Wolverine. |
Gonzo
Member
Username: Gonzo
Post Number: 80
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 26, 2004 - 9:14 am: |
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I agree with Wolverine, Wilson 5000 is a good choice.
Get the longest antenna you can fit without height problems, and trim it to lowest SWR readings, and you'll be good to go. |
Gumball
New member
Username: Gumball
Post Number: 5
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 26, 2004 - 9:30 am: |
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Thanks for the reply, but I'm afraid that a mag-mount (whether a Wilson or anything else) would NOT work very well on a VOLVO 770 tractor........besides the roof being fiberglass, there would be height issues........
The antenna is mounted with a standard mirror mount: grounded mount to door, door to cab, cab to frame. A large antenna puts a lot of stress on the mount, additionally, a large antenna is a "visual magnet" for both thieves and the DOT.
So, let me re-phrase my question:
Considering that I spend 95% of my time on CB ch.19, IS THERE ANY DIFFERENCE IN RX-TX between the Wilson-Predator-Coily-Astatic..????
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Tech808
Moderator
Username: Tech808
Post Number: 3928
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 26, 2004 - 10:34 am: |
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Gumball.
Well, yes there is a difference in RX and TX the Petes and KW's that I have mirror mounted the Astatic 3k Antennas on.
When I mounted the Astatic 3K Antenna's on BIG TRUCKS (Petes and KW's, & Freightliners) it Transmitted & Received Farther than any of the other antennas you or I mentioned.
With Channel 19 as your primary channel you use set it for the LOWEST SWR on CHANNEL 20 and you will be set.
The results I posted above is NOT just from Mounting them but ACTUAL use with the 1st Sargant and I putting well over a Million miles of driving and using the MM, Predators, mr coily, francis, wilson and every other antenna out there that we tried and the Astatic 3K out performed them ALL!
We hauled Steel in curtain side covered flat bed using a HR2510 and Ranger 2970DX and from CA to New York and Canada and Mexico we found NO ANTENNA that outperformed the ASTATIC 3 K on TX and RX. 
This is from OUR OWN PERSONAL EXPERIENCE of ACTUAL USE in OTR DRIVING with the Astatic 3K.
They are Tough, Reliable, Very Well made and Built / Designed for Big Truck Use.
Lon
Tech808
CEF808
N9OSN
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Gumball
New member
Username: Gumball
Post Number: 6
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 26, 2004 - 3:02 pm: |
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Tech808:
THANK-YOU !
That was what I was looking for - someone who had actual experience, and the knowledge to go with it.
As soon as we end the season, I will get one and install it.
Thank-you for the information. |
Jessejames_854
New member
Username: Jessejames_854
Post Number: 5
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 26, 2004 - 11:47 pm: |
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gumball, The Predator 10K Duel Coil Antenna is a very light weight antenna, and if you cant find the astatic 3K, I still suggest you consider one of these antennas, |
Vader
Junior Member
Username: Vader
Post Number: 21
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, October 28, 2004 - 3:16 pm: |
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10k......... |
Simpleman
Junior Member
Username: Simpleman
Post Number: 35
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, October 28, 2004 - 7:50 pm: |
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10K |
Gumball
New member
Username: Gumball
Post Number: 8
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 2:43 am: |
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Vader, Simpleman:
The question was.....
"HOW MUCH DIFFERENCE?"... |
Azstorm
New member
Username: Azstorm
Post Number: 4
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, November 07, 2004 - 7:12 pm: |
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Its a 10K world!! |
Gumball
Junior Member
Username: Gumball
Post Number: 11
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, November 07, 2004 - 7:47 pm: |
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Permit me to re-phrase the question:
How much DIFFERENCE would one see between the above antennas..?
..........note the word "DIFFERENCE"...??? |
Patzerozero
Intermediate Member
Username: Patzerozero
Post Number: 188
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, November 07, 2004 - 11:06 pm: |
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alright all you predator aficianados, i already have one, a single coil 22" shaft. i need another for vehicle #2, the website & phone # i had for them direct are both out of service. any ideas who sells them now, if they're still being made?
and yes, in my unscientific testing, they outperformed the wilsons to the ear and eye, gumball. how much? well...i doubt even one S-unit on a 5 S-unit signal, but in dead silent conditions on 26.835, over a 60+ mile distance, predator 10k was the difference of being heard or not(vs wilson 2000) |
Gumball
Junior Member
Username: Gumball
Post Number: 12
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Monday, November 08, 2004 - 8:58 am: |
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Patzerozero: THANK-YOU !
You may call it "unscientific" testing, but I would rather have that than something out of a sales add, and that was what I was asking for.....
The "world consensus" is that the 10K has the best receive and transmit, but there are times where a "big coil" antenna draws too much attention - from both the crooks and the D.O.T.
|
Dale
Member
Username: Dale
Post Number: 53
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Monday, November 08, 2004 - 4:30 pm: |
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i also got a new monkey made 9 antenna blew my wilson 5k mag moiunt away the 10k antenna im sure is a goood antenna but never tried that one. i had a 2-5 sunit increase in tx and same in rx. yes they do tend 2 draw attention but remember this your antenna is most imporant part of your cb set up my choice monkey made 9 |
Patzerozero
Intermediate Member
Username: Patzerozero
Post Number: 190
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Monday, November 08, 2004 - 6:47 pm: |
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thanks for all the e-mails guys.
and you know what gumball, i've tried at least 15 other BIG COIL antennas and most had the same results over my 60 mile test zone. i used to work 60 miles east of home, would have wife, son, brother, somebody on my base, use cell phone to call 'em and tell 'em go to 26.835 and my unscientific testing would begin. i don't know about 5 s-units, but they all showed better receive and transmit than a wilson 2000, my standard for which i test against, over that 60 mile distance. there was an antenna called a galaxy 20k, sold by *** in ky years ago, it had the most noticeable signal increase i'd ever seen and appeared well built . used it til it was removed from my truck in a parking lot. used a few others til i came across a predator and have used it ever since. like i said, they're all about the same, it's the quality of the workmanship that sets them apart. |
Azstorm
New member
Username: Azstorm
Post Number: 6
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Monday, November 08, 2004 - 8:15 pm: |
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Gumball,
There are solutions to both.
Crooks,well,thats a common sense thing.Dont rely on this as legal advice but,as far as DOT,I dont belive they have any jurisdiction when it comes to radio equipment or communications. |
Gumball
Junior Member
Username: Gumball
Post Number: 14
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Monday, November 08, 2004 - 8:32 pm: |
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Dale:
Just an FYI, MM antennas tend to fill with water, it is necessary to dismantle and drain occasionally..... |
404
Junior Member
Username: 404
Post Number: 17
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 09, 2004 - 9:04 pm: |
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I have tried a Wilson mag mount,102 steel whip,Francis,and Wilson Silverload antenna's.Hands down my Predator 10K outperforms all of them.It is very light weight and the quality is great.My swr was alot lower on my 10K too. |
Sparkomatic
Intermediate Member
Username: Sparkomatic
Post Number: 334
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 15, 2004 - 8:45 am: |
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The Predator 10K is one of the best but for your application I don't have a clue. The Astatic 3K is a fine antenna too. |
Sitm
Intermediate Member
Username: Sitm
Post Number: 160
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 15, 2004 - 11:48 am: |
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I believe that their is a review that 307 did on comparisons between the huge coil antennas and the steel whip. I believe it is in this forum. And the 102 steel whip came out on top. |
Sparkomatic
Intermediate Member
Username: Sparkomatic
Post Number: 336
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, December 16, 2004 - 7:08 am: |
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Well I did a test involving a "long shaft" Monkey made, 55, BB, extreme, Predator, steel whip, and a 8' Francis fiberglass.
Using 500 watts dead key guess what......the signal received and transmitted was within 1/2 a needle with of each other.
The antennas were mounted on a tool box.
The biggest downside of the steel whip is at highway speeds your antenna is ineffective because of how far back it is bending. |
Bc910
Intermediate Member
Username: Bc910
Post Number: 217
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, December 16, 2004 - 11:02 am: |
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gumball,
I agree with Lon
The astatic antenna out performs many in my experiance, but on a big truck, make sure you put a spring on it! That's how I broke my first one the bottom half dosent flex at all and it fought with a tree branch and lost! So PUT A SPRING ON IT!
BC |
Wolverine
Intermediate Member
Username: Wolverine
Post Number: 290
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 5:14 am: |
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I am very surprised that not a lot of people, know about this astatic whip. It appears to Tx and Rx as well or better than the much vaunted Preditor 10k big coils, and others like it. How is this possible? The only difference I see, is that the Preditor 10k is rated to handle higher power (Who cares?). Most folks run no more power than 600 watts peak anyway. Others are in the 100 to 250 watt range. The astatic antenna looks like it can withstand "windload" effects at speed better than the 10k, that is to say with a spring added. This antenna may the best thing since "Sliced Bread", and it definitely needs more advertising, to get the word out that there are some viable, good alternatives to the big coils, that will even out do the Wilson line of Antennas. Can the antenna wars get any better than this??.
Wolverine. |
Tech808
Moderator
Username: Tech808
Post Number: 4486
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 6:00 am: |
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Wolverine,
OK, How about this?
http://www.copperelectronics.com/cgi-bin/checkitout/checkitout.cgi?catalogSTORE:CKIE:prodA70-05130+
A70-05130 ASTATIC 3K TRUCKER ANTENNA
$ 49.99
"NEW ITEM AT A SPECIAL INTRODUCTORY PRICE"
FOR A LIMITED TIME COMES WITH AN ASTATIC BELT BUCKLE($15.99 VALUE)
FEATURES:
Power rating of up to 3000 watts
Exclusive Linear Load Design
Highest Radiation Efficiency
Frequency Range 26-30MHz (10 and 11 meter)
Fiberglass Reinforced Polymer Resin Housing, offering superior structural integrity
Enameled 10ga. Solid Copper Wire
36? Tapered Stainless Steel Whip with Corona Ball
Nickel Plated Solid Brass Ferrule System
Truck Tuned for CB ? can easily be re-tuned for your vehicle
Lon
Tech808
CEF808
N9OSN
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Wolverine
Intermediate Member
Username: Wolverine
Post Number: 291
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 6:38 am: |
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Now, that's what I'm talking about! "Walking the dog, and kickin the cat". Nothing like good old fashioned advertising.
Wolverine. |
Tech808
Moderator
Username: Tech808
Post Number: 4487
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 6:53 am: |
|
 |
Patzerozero
Intermediate Member
Username: Patzerozero
Post Number: 311
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, January 07, 2005 - 7:10 pm: |
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what was that about 'capture area'? the astatic 3kl is BIG & HEAVY. works GREAT with mag mounts, too! just had to duct tape mine to the roof to keep it on the truck! went to a triple 5" mount, has held on at highway speeds, at high speed in 4wd on rough roads it sounds like it's coming thru the roof, but it's still there!
may not need to go back to my predator 10k... |
Wolverine
Intermediate Member
Username: Wolverine
Post Number: 293
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, January 08, 2005 - 9:42 am: |
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Patzerozero, maybe you can share your experiences in using both the 10k, and the 3k antennas, and tell us, which one you like best, and which one do you use the most. Have a nice weekend.
Wolverine. |
Coyote
Member
Username: Coyote
Post Number: 58
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, January 08, 2005 - 11:14 am: |
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Sparkomatic,
Sorry, I have to disagree about the ineffectiveness of the 102" at highway speed's. I use one without a spring and travel 50 miles one way to work 5 days a week and have talked dx all over the country while running 75mph. Had some guy's in upstate NY tell me the other day I sounded like a local and couldn't believe I was in a mobile in TN and I'm only running 25 watt's behind a stock TRC-453. Just my penny's worth.
73
CEF443 |
Geekster
Intermediate Member
Username: Geekster
Post Number: 160
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, January 13, 2005 - 8:22 am: |
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Astatic 3K
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Wolverine
Intermediate Member
Username: Wolverine
Post Number: 297
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 18, 2005 - 2:24 am: |
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I did some more research on this linear load 3k antenna. The site (Astatic) stated that the radiated range or pattern of the signal, is only 3/10 of a decibel less than a full length SS 102" whip. So for practical purposes, you couldn't tell the difference between the 3k, and the ss whip. The 3k is only 5 feet tall. Remarkable.
Wolverine. |
Wolverine
Intermediate Member
Username: Wolverine
Post Number: 298
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 18, 2005 - 5:46 am: |
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Patzerozero, if you are still around, I like to hear your findings between the 3k and 10k ants. This is like waiting for the next "Harry Potter" book or finale. I placed my order for the 3k antenna today from Copper's, and I can't wait to test it myself. I just hope this "Linear load" technology isn't a lot of advertising hype or huey. I'm a sucker for this stuff. I AM AN ANTENNA JUNKIE.
Wolverine. |
Patzerozero
Intermediate Member
Username: Patzerozero
Post Number: 353
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, January 23, 2005 - 11:27 pm: |
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been a bit under the weather here wolverine. these high temps around 12 degrees are killing me! and the dusting of snow earlier in the week didn't stop til it got to the 6" mark. can't measure todays snowfall, local news says my neighborhood broke 20", but the 50+ mph winds are leaving these tremndous drifts over the roof of my truck. spent 2 hrs this AM clearing driveway & i can't see it again. below zero tonite will make it fun to try to clear again in AM. the word 'island',where i live, makes me think 'tropical'-NOT RIGHT NOW!!!
yes, wolverine, i've been planning on going out & comparing how far away i can get from home & they can still hear me, to see if the predator is any better then the astatic. i can say, for a fact and without a doubt, a wilson 2k CANNOT compare to either in MY world testing. no fancy meters, signal generators or analyzers of any type EVER used here! "i can hear you-can you still hear me!"-that is what counts. and, can i cover 26.835 with swr's LOWLOWLOW, and still be under, say 1.7:1 at 27.555. wilson 2k was close, though a bit higher then 3k & 10K. was using a single 5" mount, astatic would blow off roof without duct taping it on , so i went to a 3 5" magnet mount. works good in dry conditions, holds lots of water in rain, 6" of snow a couple days ago had no effects on swr's, but over 2 feet across roof today, they went to 3:1, took a while to clean up enough to get swr's under 2, but this ain't gonna cut it if it gives me grief every time it gets wet. if the temp ever gets up to degree that allows life to flourish & my fingers retain their pink fleshy color i'll see what i can do to alleviate the water problem permanently. as for noise,the 3k even on the cheap mount was NOTICEABLY quieter then the wilson, and caused less rfi problems in my durango. on the 3 mag, with the super rg8x, there ARE no rfi problems, not even interfering with the stereo speakers! with the 3k that is, the wilson doesn't interfere either, but it still picks up something from the truck, along with atmospheric noise that the 3k doesn't hear. can faintly hear a number of stations in brooklyn, on 26.835 AM, from my spot on beach about 55 miles east of there with wilson. astatic pulls them right in & we can talk reasonably well with me running 100watts dead key (they are all up over 400watts deadkey). this is 3 in afternoon, some skip, and considerable noise. just can't do that with wilson. had trouble talking 25 miles to my base with wilson, now there is no problem.
i'm sure this 'linear load technology' IS a lot of hype & huey, but i will swear IN COURT if neccessary, that the astatic is better then the wilson! hopefully it warms up over one of these next weekends, i gotta run cables for my new davemade box before i take a ride into Pa. next month, & i wanna compare the astatic to the predator for my own curiosity! will definitely let you know what i find!!! |
Wolverine
Intermediate Member
Username: Wolverine
Post Number: 303
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 25, 2005 - 6:23 am: |
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Thanks Patzerozero, for the thumbs up- ala 3k antenna. As far as the snow you're experiencing, I think this is the worst blizzard/snowstorm that has ever hit the mid-west, and eastern states. One other thing Patzerozero, how do you think the 6ft anttron A-1700 stake up the the astatic 3k??
Wolverine. |
Gumball
Junior Member
Username: Gumball
Post Number: 41
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, January 27, 2005 - 7:15 pm: |
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Patzerozo:
Good info, thank-you. I too, will be waiting for "the rest of the story". |
Patzerozero
Intermediate Member
Username: Patzerozero
Post Number: 374
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, January 29, 2005 - 11:05 am: |
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have been unable to locate a-1700 wolverine, is it still available new, or is it new? have the astatic 3kl, predator 10k, 7' skipshooter, old antron 3000gold, roadmaster z-180 and gonna see if i can come up with anything else this morning. maybe this afternoon, or tomorrow AM i'll be able to get about 50 miles or so east of here(can't go much farther though or i'll fall off of my island!) and we'll see what we can do!!! |
Tech808
Moderator
Username: Tech808
Post Number: 4673
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, January 29, 2005 - 11:09 am: |
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Patzerozero,
Did you look here at Copper. 
A90-00000 Anttron 1700 Mobile Antenna - Black
$ 18.99
http://www.copperelectronics.com/cgi-bin/checkitout/checkitout.cgi?catalogSTORE:CKIE:prodA90-00000+
Hope this helps,
Lon
Tech808
CEF808
N9OSN |
Patzerozero
Intermediate Member
Username: Patzerozero
Post Number: 378
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, January 29, 2005 - 3:25 pm: |
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thankyou, lon, 'checked it out' and called my local (ahem)cb shop. lo & behold, they have 'em! for $49.99 i don't need to test it that bad! he also has a used lincoln on the shelf, 'all mods installed', whatever they may be for $400. i thought it was a joke. he thought my counteroffers were jokes too! he tells me he sells lots of those A1700's, unfortunately it doesn't look like anything i've seen driving around here, so i'm not having any luck getting 1 for my test-YET.
as we left, he was bragging to us about the boomer 500 & connex 3300 he was talking skip on. i felt it was my duty to key over him with the 21-2sc2879's & 148 in the van. he said i couldn't key over him. we probably weren't welcome in there anymore before i keyed up, so i figured what the hey!
today's done wolverine, i'm still looking for an a1700, & hoping to do some testing tomorrow! |
Wolverine
Intermediate Member
Username: Wolverine
Post Number: 308
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 01, 2005 - 2:39 am: |
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We will all be awaiting Patzerozero. |
Wolverine
Intermediate Member
Username: Wolverine
Post Number: 309
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 01, 2005 - 6:27 am: |
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One other thing patzerozero, let me know if you ever thought about replacing your 10k, with the 3k, on a full time basis. It seems that the 3k would be better for your mount (weightwise), and also it looks like windloading effects would improve too. Thx.
Wolverine. |
Patzerozero
Intermediate Member
Username: Patzerozero
Post Number: 414
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, February 04, 2005 - 7:01 pm: |
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tomorrows the day wolverine. got everything but the A1700. oh well. my durango is using the triple mag mount, my blazer uses the predator because it is hard mounted. i only put a radio in the durango because the blazer's body is starting to see drastic effects from the saltwater! i never had any intention of going more then 100bird watts in the durango-reliability issues. well that didn't go as planned. also, the predator looks a bit obnoxious on the smaller durango, whereas the blazer has 16" of lift & 44" tires, the predator isn't even noticed on it! am looking for another older chevy 4x4 in better condition to start again. though it looks like the durango will keep it's radio equipt intact!
should have some answers tomorrow nite! |
Wolverine
Intermediate Member
Username: Wolverine
Post Number: 310
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, February 05, 2005 - 3:06 am: |
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Okay Patzerozero, I figure the 6ft A1700 would come in third place anyway. I'm more interested in the 10k which, I think may come in 1st place over the linear load technology 3k, which will come in 2nd. But who knows?. If you had a double coil 10k, it probably wouldn't look as obnoxious on your durango as the single coil 10K. Good luck with the testing, and have a good weekend.
Wolverine. |
Patzerozero
Intermediate Member
Username: Patzerozero
Post Number: 421
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, February 06, 2005 - 10:44 pm: |
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alright wolverine, got to spend a beautiful saturday afternoon at the beach on the atlantic ocean! air temp was about 40 and windchill was about 20. by the time we were done i thought i had frostbite! some surprises, some obvious answers. still having problems with my triple mag mount, new coax should be here monday & boy am i gonna do some heavy duty sealing! keying up before we left home, with or without power, the more i'd key, the higher the swr's would go. changed it to a piece of 9913 & swr's went back to 1.3. hmmmm. cut open the coax i'd removed & found it was wet almost half way into it, & only a few feet is outside of the truck. apparently as the ice melted inside the coax...
went to beach about 35 miles east of home. mobile was grant xl & dx350 with my triple mag mount. my base is icom ic735 & maco v5/8. mobile was in snow at dunes edge about 40' from ocean, unfortunately couldn't quite point towards base, but was a bit too far south, more towards jersey. but with antenna centered on roof i don't think directivity was much of a problem. located a 102" whip to add to the test. don't know who made it, age or anything about it. apparently it don't work! swr's were like 2.5 on ch 20, but over 3 on 26.835. heard no noise, & i couldn't hear my base & he couldn't hear me!. trash.
on 835 wilson 2000 had probably lowest swr, maybe 1.2. 7' skipshooter, predator 10k & astatic 3kl all were about 1.3, just a needle's width or 2 higher then the wilson. couldn't get the antron gold 3k under about 1.8, & the roadmaster z-180 was highest at just under 2. along with the 102", the wilson, antron & roadmaster couldn't cover 26.7-27.6 with swr's under 2 no matter how we adjusted 'em. not sure of the accuracy or even relavance of this, but over the 2 hours of testing, atmosheric noise/static/white noise was non existant on predstor, astatic and antron, but 'louder & more prevalent on skip, wilson & z180. i received my bases signal at just about 3 s-units with skip, predator & astatic. virtually no distinguishable difference between those 3. antron was 1/2 way between 1 & 3 s-units, wilson was just plain in the mud. with the amp OFF, my son basically said he couldn't hear me strong enough to understand all of my words on the wilson, antron or z180. those 3 were equally inefficient, basically useless at that distance. again, the other 3 antennas he said my signal was swinging from 1-3 s units, all 3 fairly equal high peaks, though the predator MAY have had a slightly higher low. the only time throughout the whole test where he made this following comment, and we tried it a few times, was with the amp off, he says my audio was quite a bit LOUDER with the predator. the infamous jogunn audio gain? never expected to hear that response from him, & i tried to make sure he wasn't touching volume or notch or pbt or doing anything to affect receive & he said no. mixing up the antennas & throwing the predator on when he wasn't expecting it he told me each time the predator was on that my audio was louder. BUT, he didn't say it with the amp ON, at least he didn't think it sounded different. with the dx350 turned on, my signal was weakest by far with the z180, and the antron & wilson equally weak as each other with a signal strength of 1/2 way between S3 & 5. as for the 'big' 3, he told me all 3 were at about 5. moved my truck to a couple different angles, the astatic gained a notieable edge, he said it was about a needles width over S5, the skipshooter that far under & the predator right on S5. that may just have been because i was moving the mount around on the roof, it may have been because i was aimed more towards home now, but behind a dune that was several feet higher then my antenna. no big difference between those 3 though. now, all the while, i had somebody offering his views on what was going on. he said heard us bleeding over as we drove past his base, located the bleedover & listened to us til he 1st keyed up when we 1st switched antennas. he wouldn't say where he was, but that he was less then 10 miles away. his strong S9+ signal says he was probably even closer then that. my son said he was under S9 at the base, so...
now what both i and this other gentleman noticed was that at considerably closer range, the differences in antennas was nearly nonexistant! all 6 antennas & his signal never got as low as just over S9. i'd say he was a bit stronger with the predator & weakest with z180.he also claimed that he really didn't see any difference in my signal with any of the antennas, just about S7 with 'em all. he wouldn't give any of them an edge. with the astatic mounted, we drove back to the mainland, then continued east at least 12 more miles til my base could barely hear me. back onto a closed public beach, surrounded by houses with multimillion dollar servants quarters, 'the hamptons', we did 6 quick switches with the amp on. could not hear the base nor could he hear me with the wilson, antron or roadmaster. skipshooter i could hear base fine, though he didn't move meter at all, he could hear me but just barely. astatic was next at both ends with the winner over distance, the predator. we drove east again for a few more miles with the predator on, & i could still hear my base, though he could no longer hear me.pulled over on side of road & replaced predator with astatic & needed to get a couple miles closer before i could hear my base again, & even closer before he could hear me. got back towards home, about 5 miles away & swapped antennas 1 more time. no noticeable difference with any of the antennas.
basically, with quiet conditions, within 5 miles all 6 of the antennas were fairly equal. over a 35+ mile distance, the differences started to become clearer. and the farther away we drove, the differences became more obvious. the length wasn't the deciding factor as the roadmaster was only shorter then the skipshooter, and surface area wasn't 'it'either, as you can see the wire thru the coating on the fiberglass skipshooter. however the predator & astatic each have moresurface area then the rest-and they were pretty much 1-2. unfortunately, there was NO noise the whole day, nor was there any skip at all. i don't see any reason to try the wilson ,antron or z180 on dx, but i'd like to try the 'big 3', though i'm not sure how accurate that would be because with dx things can change good or bad during 5 seconds of keying the mic.
as for my durango, wolverine, i see no reason to put the predator on as i don't anticipate ever using more then a 1x4 amp in it. when the day comes that i find the chevy i'm looking for, for my BIG mobile, the predator will be the very 'least' antenna i put on it, it will be hard mounted, not magnet mounted, and i may go dual antennas, front to back, with the back hot & front director, if it's a suburban. but the big amp guys all say that 'capture area' works, so i may go bigger physical thickness for the 'big' truck.
so for probably more then 75% of the cbers out there, get your swr's down & any antenna will work. for long distance local, bigger is better, and not just length but overall capture area & even then there's no booming differences between the 3 i tested.
if we get any more dx before 2008, i'll try to compare the 3, otherwise, i'll stick with the astatic on my durango for now-not enough difference to make a change! |
Gumball
Junior Member
Username: Gumball
Post Number: 42
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Monday, February 07, 2005 - 12:43 pm: |
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That sounds like a lot of work. BUT, you and your son were very thorough, and conducted an excellent test. I like how you did readings at 35 miles, and again at 5 miles.
THIS was the kind of answer that I was looking for when I originally posted this question, thank-you. |
Patzerozero
Intermediate Member
Username: Patzerozero
Post Number: 425
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Monday, February 07, 2005 - 1:42 pm: |
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you know what gumball, had that mysterious gentleman not appeared over the radio, i might not have done the 5 mile test. it entered my mind on many occasions, but my thing is distance, local as well as dx, so i wanted to know which helped me get out farther. again, some surprises and at the same time, no real surprises....my fingers are starting to get their color back though! |
Wolverine
Intermediate Member
Username: Wolverine
Post Number: 311
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 08, 2005 - 3:29 am: |
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Very extensive testing, and an excellent post, Patzerozero. The maker of the preditor 10k antennas state that the 10k is not a loaded antenna, which confused me because I know that a coil, is supposed to make up the difference for an SS102" whip. Maybe the reason is because the 10k is an open coil, as opposed to the sealed Wilson trucker coils/loads. Thanks, for also talking about the surface or capture area differences between the antennas, which made me realize that even though the anttron A1700 is 6' in length, it couldn't compete with the linear loading os the astatic, or the wide open coil of the 10k. So I guess you are declaring the 10k the winner of this boxing match by "Decision", and not by "Knock out". Proud Owners of the astatic 3k should be very pleased and happy that the antenna, performance wise is within a hairsbreadth of the 10k. Also, to see you using the 3k for now, instead of using the 10k says a lot. When you finally get that Chevy that you have your eyes set on, I know that it will be "The Bomb". Again, excellent post.
Wolverine. |
Patzerozero
Advanced Member
Username: Patzerozero
Post Number: 544
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, March 06, 2005 - 10:52 pm: |
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UPDATE-UPDATE-UPDATE-UPDATE-UPDATE-UPDATE-UPDATE
well, wolverine, it's a 10k world again here in ny. was cruisin' this AM talking a bit of local & a bit of dx & happened to glance at my brand new palstar wm150m wattmeter. hmmmmm...250 watts dead key & 125 watts reflected ain't good!!! especially when it was set at 150 dead key with 2-3 reflected. didn't even get to hit ch 13 today. i tore apart EVERYTHING! the astatic 3k, the mount, the coax, the jumpers, the amp, the radio, switched to an old maco wattmeter, everything i could think of. got swr's back down to just over 3. well that's not good. i knew something was up with the astatic when my swr's were VERY VERY near the same 3:1 on the maco on ch1, on ch 40, on 27.555,on 27.905, on 26.835. they don't stay that exact/close over 1+ mhz when they're right. adjusting the stinger made NO difference in swr's whatsoever. all the way in was EXACTLY the same as all the way out! in fact, i removed the stinger from the bottom of the antenna completely & they stayed exactly the same! so i guess tomorrow it's a phone call to astatic. it's very annoying for a $50 item. (it was easier to deal with the pain of smokin' the texas star! at least that was $300!)
well, i grabbed the predator, & reshaped the coil the 44's ran over practicing lacrosse in the house...and, without re-tuning with the davemade in the truck, swr's were 2:1. 150 watts dead key and 20 watts reflected is NOT good, but sure beats 50% reflected. part of the high reflect could be the short shaft. i may just call the man tomorrow & order a 22" shaft no matter what astatic says. heck, i may just get a whole double coil w/22" shaft antenna anyways. i never abused the astatic at all. 300 dead key/900 swing was the most, & that was only briefly for 'testing' purposes. 150/700 was the norm. i hate warranty issues. abuse is another story.
i wonder whats really going on inside of that thick bottom piece of the astastic. at least with the 10k, the only problems can be at the threaded connections, & those you can see & deal with.
every time i'm almost ready to set the S9 permanently in the truck, there's a monkeywrench thrown into the works! and of course it's supposed to rain & snow & ice & be just plain
&%$##* right thru the week... |
Wolverine
Intermediate Member
Username: Wolverine
Post Number: 332
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 08, 2005 - 3:06 am: |
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Patzerozero, from what I understand the Predator 10k 27" shafts are best for side rails and tool boxes so that the coil, will be right above the cab. The 22" shafts are best for car trunk mounts and pick-up truck rooftops. The shorter 9" and 12" are for big-rig mirror mounts because of height restrictions. Reflect can be cured by getting a longer shaft, which in turn lowers the SWR readings. My astatic 3k has a 29 and 1/2" shaft. My swr is 1.2 . You might want to get rid of that 5" mag mount, and get the 3-pad mag mount to increase the grounding capacitance. That's the problem, when you have the type of weather where you live. Rain and snow can screw up swr's, grounding, connections, jumpers etc. Keep experimenting, and good luck.
Wolverine. |
Patzerozero
Advanced Member
Username: Patzerozero
Post Number: 555
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 6:44 pm: |
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i am using a 3 x 5" triangular mag mount, wolverine, (not the proam type, the 'better' one).
have made 5 calls to astatic for RMA #, they have yet to return my call. have a complete 2 coil x 22" shaft coming to replace the shorter shaft predator i have. the double coil ant is shorter as i have a LOW RR trestle that makes 1 heckuva a thunk when i hit it with the taller 10K! swr's are now lower, but reflected is still a bit up, natural phenonenon due to coils close proximity to aluminum roof mount's crossbar. am waiting for kale or john to get back to me on lug type mount to replace so-239 on mag mount, gonna try it with ground wires & see if we can get back to less then 2% reflected.
have all day monday to call & harass astatic. should they not respond to my request for RMA # for 3kl ant that IS dead, am gonna have to write 'em a very carefully worded letter! |
Patzerozero
Advanced Member
Username: Patzerozero
Post Number: 671
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, April 09, 2005 - 10:24 am: |
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hmmmmm...astatic 3k linear load handles 3000 watts...ok, 2nd antenna worked fine with 200 watts, just as previous one. at 900 watts my swr's went to 3:1 AGAIN! & as with previous antenna, 3:1 on ANY freq, with or without the stinger inserted! it took a few days for it to die, again, but if a 3kw rated antenna is gonna die at 1/3 it's rated power capacity...the predator looks like it's gonna be returned to #1 status, holds the reflected at less then 2%, wet or dry! the astatic would vary with humidity! |
Wolverine
Intermediate Member
Username: Wolverine
Post Number: 341
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, April 16, 2005 - 7:59 pm: |
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Astatic needs some more R&D (Research and Development to iron out the bugs in this antenna. |
Patzerozero
Advanced Member
Username: Patzerozero
Post Number: 697
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Monday, April 18, 2005 - 4:37 pm: |
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i BOUGHT the 2nd one, they had me send the 1st one to them & have yet to give me an answer as to why it died & whether or not they will replace it. when i said i bought a 2nd, the rep said i shouldn't have as she isn't sure whether they'll reimburse me(ok-don't buy another because you're not sure if it'll be covered? what then do i put up on the mount???). when i called her again & said it too died, she asked if i knew what i was doing. well, i have yet to kill the wilson 2000 & 5000(which i don't like), or an old van ordt i have, either predator, or any of the other 100+ mobile antennas i've used over the years. i tend to lean towards there being a problem with the 2 astatics, seeing as they are 0 for 2, and have a life expectancy of a few keys... |
Duck246
Junior Member
Username: Duck246
Post Number: 20
Registered: 8-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 19, 2005 - 1:36 am: |
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Lets break this down here. A 102in whip has more gain than those antennas. Why would you put something smaller on it intentionally?
I have personally tested a 102in whip v.s. a K40, Wilson 1000, 2000, 5000, firesticks, hustlers, radioshack's, monkeymade, and even francis.
The 102inch whip had better receive by far, and better TX. Look at the math people! |
Wolverine
Intermediate Member
Username: Wolverine
Post Number: 342
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 19, 2005 - 5:50 am: |
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SHAME, SHAME, SHAME. What a waste of money. Maybe they ought to list the maximum power handling capabilites in rms or pep. I have never ran anything over 100 watts in mine, and that's after watching you go through your horrid experiences with the 3k via your posts. This might be the perfect antenna for barefoot purposes only.
Wolverine. |
Patzerozero
Advanced Member
Username: Patzerozero
Post Number: 703
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 20, 2005 - 5:44 pm: |
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rms did not exceed 300 watts carrier, pep did not exceed 900 watts. i'm trying to find out what diameter wire they use internally & couldn't get the answer from astatic. was thinking about cutting open the 2nd one i killed, but can't figure out how without cutting it in half & then trying to peel coating back. gonna wait 1st & see what astatic says.
who sells 102" whips? how do i adjust the swr's? how do i lengthen it when it's too short to resonate at the freq i use? when parked it does just fine, at 65mph when it's laying down flat it's not doing what i want it to do. my last experience with a 102" whip could not get swr's into reasonalbe territory-forget matching antenna to get less then 2% reflected power. it just wasn't happening. under optimum testing conditions, the 102" whip on 6" spring produces the 'optimum' radiation pattern, & shows the highest signal strength readings over all other shortened antennas. does that mean it is the BEST antenna in the world? absolutely NOT! under real world-use conditions it can't be. it's not perfectly straight up in the air, nor does it have any obstructions to deflect/direct or change it's signal pattern, both on rcv & xmit. a base station antenna COULD POSSIBLY be made to mimic the 'test pattern' more easily then a mobile since it is stationary & can be permanently placed to nullify as much as possible any variations. since the 5/8 wave is considered to be the 'best', you could still have a 1/4 outperform it do building materials & mounting/location/height situations. as per arrl & other assorted 'experts' antenna handbooks, physical size of antenna shaft(capture area) though much more critical at higher vhf/uhf freqs(do to small physical size of antenna)IS a factor at lower freqs as well, if the physical size of antenna shaft & overall length of antenna are not prohibitive. as i said regarding the astatic 3k antenna, i'm sure their linear load mumbo jumbo is mostly that-mumbo jumbo. whereas the BIG open air coil skip talking antennas are dual purpose-handle massive amounts of wattage & take advantage of capture area. til i kill 'em, the astatic 3k outperforms the 102" whip hands down. the predator is on par with the astatic, they each have their better points. in my usage, the predator outperforms the 102" across the board, outreceives & outtransmits. substantially. in fact the 102" isn't even in the top whatever. there is NO way to say without a doubt 100% of the time a 1/4 wave steel whip is the best mobile antenna & a 5/8 wave is the BEST base antenna. the ole isotropic radiator just gets things out equally in all directions at max signal strength. it CANNOT be duplicated at the average ham/cbers base nor ANYBODY'S mobile & is nothing more then technical hooey when it comes to the average real world setup. set up your antenna to your situation & adjust til you're happy. the only way to know if something is better is to try another antenna. when doing 65mhp on the LIE in bumper to bumper traffic(yes we do it every day, this is NY, not 'the country')the 102" whip is NOT the best. |
Nobodyknows
Junior Member
Username: Nobodyknows
Post Number: 12
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, June 04, 2005 - 2:10 pm: |
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Hey Pat, Did Astatic make right with you on the 2 burned out antennas? Also your real world testing on these is excellent! |
Patzerozero
Advanced Member
Username: Patzerozero
Post Number: 877
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, June 05, 2005 - 9:28 pm: |
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they sent me a new 1 for the 1st 1 i killed. the 2nd, well i haven't even argued with 'em over it-yet.
my predator has to do the job for the time being. |
Paganville
Junior Member
Username: Paganville
Post Number: 18
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 24, 2007 - 1:10 pm: |
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Hey Pat...I appreciate the review and tests you did a couple of years ago on these antenna's...Just wanted you to know that and was wondering how Astatic treated you in the end or did you just "let it go".. |
Patzerozero
Senior Member
Username: Patzerozero
Post Number: 3635
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 24, 2007 - 7:35 pm: |
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the woman(?) i was dealing with stopped calling me back. she hinted that she thought i was purposely destroying them, in the name of testing. i left plenty of messages, saying that at $50 a pop, i was done testing it, & would like some sort of compensation. nothing-oh well. i have a 3rd, which i've never used, & probably won't-with any type of power. i know of 2 others that burned up WELL within the 3kw limit. while i thought they were real good antennas-i'm sticking with my predator. |
Tech808
Moderator
Username: Tech808
Post Number: 13558
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 24, 2007 - 7:52 pm: |
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Patzerozero,
Do you think it could be because back in 2004 when this thread was started Astatic owned Astatic and since then Barjan purchased Astatic and the lady may not be employed by Barjan since Barjan is in a different state. 
Lon ~ Tech808 ~ N9CEF
CEF#808 ~ CEF HAM#33 ~ CVC#002
10-10 #61493 ~ 10-10 VP#2688
Tech808@copperelectronics.com
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Patzerozero
Senior Member
Username: Patzerozero
Post Number: 3636
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 7:33 am: |
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quite possible, lon....but i know she was annoyed at me for hounding her for reimbursement. oh well, my predator handles what i can dish out, so i'm good for now!  |
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