| Author |
Message |
    
Airplane1
Senior Member
Username: Airplane1
Post Number: 1083
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, October 18, 2008 - 1:00 pm: | 
|
why would hooking a ground from antenna to ground rod make my receive noisy? I mean like after I ran a solid copper rod from the base of my maco 5/8 straight down to the ground rod beside my concrete base 10ft in the ground would my receive go from just a bit of white noise to a sound of a electric motor running? It has not stopped and it was hooked up hours now.
My ground is not even close to other grounds of the house. I will be bonding them together after I but more copper.
AP |
Captian_radio
Intermediate Member
Username: Captian_radio
Post Number: 454
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, October 18, 2008 - 9:16 pm: |
|
How long is the ground wire? Could be some multiple of a wave length on 11 meters and acting as an antenna itself.What happens when you disconnect the ground wire , does the noise go away,maybe its just a coincidence ,maybe something in the area just started causing a problem when you hooked up the new ground wire.Try disconnecting it and see what happens and also try looking for buried power lines near your ground this may be causing inductive pickup such as when you take a radio and place it near a strong power source you will get the buzzing sound, this is called inductive pickup.
Bob CEF451/VE1CZ
Robert L. Spicer The days of radio are just beginning!
|
Airplane1
Senior Member
Username: Airplane1
Post Number: 1084
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Monday, October 20, 2008 - 7:15 am: |
|
It stopped after a day so it was a just a coincidence. I know one thing, I finaly put the tower up 36 ft to feed point on Fri. and hooked the ground up and let me tell you, I am talking 50 + miles no problem every day/night and farther. People that could here me but could not understand me are giving me 3-5 bars on my 2970dx and they could not make out much of what I was saying but now on 12 watts SSB they hear me and there meters show 6-7 lbs.
I should have done this long ago. I just hope it helps DXing.
AP |
Hotwire
Senior Member
Username: Hotwire
Post Number: 2658
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 22, 2008 - 2:16 am: |
|
I get terrible static from time to time on the base and mobile, but more so on the base. It will come back again. Just power lines and stuff. A good noise blanker is a must during heavy interference. Without a doubt your ready to DX. Should be fun!
Kenny
CEF491
Reading the mail around Indianapolis Indiana!
|
Airplane1
Senior Member
Username: Airplane1
Post Number: 1088
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 22, 2008 - 10:12 am: |
|
Yea Hotwire, It is funny how the noise comes and goes. It gets very quiet at times and you can hear a pin drop. I wish it stayed that way.
All though my 2970dx seems to have a hiss on recieve all the time.
I miss my grant, it was alsome.
AP |
Airplane1
Senior Member
Username: Airplane1
Post Number: 1089
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, October 23, 2008 - 6:51 am: |
|
Guess what now? I had to disconnect the ground as I was bleeding over my tv so bad that the picture disapeared and the speaker put out a bad hum. I tried every thing with no avale. A friend said try unhooking the ground and when I did the problem went away.
I thought an antenna is supposed to be grounded. I thought it would help the system not hurt it.
I guess I should post this problem in the ask the tech section.
AP |
Streaky
Intermediate Member
Username: Streaky
Post Number: 188
Registered: 3-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, October 23, 2008 - 9:29 pm: |
|
Airplane sounds to me that your groung wire is radiating just like CR said
Streaky
CEF#805
CVC#98
WorldRadio805
The Craziest Station in the Canadian Nation
|
Airplane1
Senior Member
Username: Airplane1
Post Number: 1094
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Friday, October 24, 2008 - 7:08 am: |
|
I think so too but I want to understand why.
I hope tech 833 jumps in. |
Moderator136
Moderator
Username: Moderator136
Post Number: 1104
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Friday, October 24, 2008 - 9:43 pm: |
|
I have a Question for you Airplane1 Is your antenna and radio grounded on the same ground? I think i understand that you grounded the 5/8 at the base of the tower is that correct? Ok just one more Question: You didint say if your radio is grounded? You have to bond them on the same ground. Lot of times iv seen where there antenna was grounded and such as older homes someone would bond a ground to a older water pipe going into plastic pipe (No Ground at All) Same gos with ground wire on your 120 or 240 in your house. It has to be bonded togeather to a ground. Oh yes i doint want to forget some older homes have no ground to 120 plug ins. That not good! So what im saying the antenna and radio ground should be on the same ground.
It did sound like you was doing ok there for awhile. Then it started back up. One more sugestion, Check where you unplug and plug your radios in ! They do go bad.
I hope this helps?
Let me know
Hal~Moderator136~KCØSVC
CEF#0136/CEF HAM#23 ~ CVC#0004
|
Hotwire
Senior Member
Username: Hotwire
Post Number: 2664
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Friday, October 24, 2008 - 10:30 pm: |
|
Airplane, Sure you want to ground the antenna but not by running a long wire up the pole to the bottom of the antenna. The antenna base is actually connected to the pole. You ground the pole down at the bottom with an 8 foot ground rod with as short of a ground wire as possible. The long ground wire radiates your signal because it is 108 inches (1/4 wave) or longer.Same goes with the power wires speaker wires and whatever else is attached to the radio. Sometimes it is the most simple things we overlook that cause complicated problems.
Kenny
CEF491
Reading the mail around Indianapolis Indiana!
|
Airplane1
Senior Member
Username: Airplane1
Post Number: 1097
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, October 25, 2008 - 11:31 am: |
|
Moderator 136,
1)I did not ground the antenna tower from the leg of the tower. I grounded it by running a #4 or 6 copper wire from the base of the maco 5/8 down the side of the tower to the ground rod.
2) I only grounded the the antenna at this point and not the equipment and did no bonding of the house rods with antenna rod yet. I was going to do it in steps as time permitted and I get the items needed. so maybe this is not a good idea.
3) My home is 21 years old and it is grounded from the service of the home to a ground rod. My garage is seperate from my house and about 16 years old and has a ground rod out side of the service into its own ground rod. It is bonded though the connection between it and my house under ground from house service to garage service.
4) My radios are on the far side of my home compared to where my antenna tower is so the ground rod for them will be like 70ft away from each other and also where the coax comes into the house where I wanted to put polyphasers is 40 ft away from the radio and runs in the basement floor joists to the radio room.
Is this enough info for getting help? if you need more please ask.
I can post pics or drawings of my house and garage setups if it will help.
AP
AP |
Airplane1
Senior Member
Username: Airplane1
Post Number: 1098
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, October 25, 2008 - 11:37 am: |
|
Hotwire,
I am going to tilt it down and try getting the tower all electricaly connected if this is the right term to use and then ground it at the base.
I just thought that the tower being the same length as the wire (36ft) it would radiate as does the wire.
Thats where I just dont understand, sorry, some things come to me but others just take me time.
Dont get sick of my questions and my troubles I am not trying to be a pain. I realy do want to under stand the grounding thing.
AP |
Hotwire
Senior Member
Username: Hotwire
Post Number: 2666
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, October 25, 2008 - 1:28 pm: |
|
I never get tired of reading anyone's questions. The more posts the better and it keeps the forum busy. Nothing worse than a forum with no activity regardless of what is being discussed.
From reading your last post in the "Technical Questions" section I understand you feel that becuase of the galvanized mast it will not allow for a proper ground connection.
I would not worry. It will ground with a very tight and secure clamp. To help ease your mind your can use a digital multimeter on the ohms scale and put one lead to the antenna base and the other lead to the mast, the meter should zero out. I can even get the meter to zero out on my antenna by one lead on the antenna base and the other lead in the dirt!
Don't worry cause if the antenna was to be hit by lightning the little bit of chemical coating will not matter.
Just suggestions I'm giving you, it's your antenna and all that matters is that your happy with the results. Many times the simple way is the best way.
Whatever you do I would suggest NOT to sand any of the chemical coating from the galvanized mast! The rust will start almost instantly and then you really have a connection problem.
Kenny
CEF491
Reading the mail around Indianapolis Indiana!
|
Tech808
Moderator
Username: Tech808
Post Number: 16193
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, October 25, 2008 - 3:48 pm: |
|
Airplane1,
#1 ~ Keep ALL grounding #1 copper wire's as SHORT as possible.
#2 ~ For Grounding the Antenna to Tower or Rotor:
#3 ~ Ground antenna to mast pipe.
#4 ~ Ground mast pipe to rotor if using one.
#5 ~ Ground Rotor from rotor plate to tower using 2" to 4" of #1 copper wire.
#6 ~ At base of tower or mounting/push-up pole run a #1 copper ground wire to the pole or ALL "3 "legs of tower leaving enough to reach your copper or copper clad ground rod at least 8' long.
#7 ~ If using a tower ground ALL 3 leg's together at the base of the tower with a single piecs of #1 copper wire and leave enough to reach your 8' ground rod.
REMEMBER!
Use the SAME Single Point Ground for your Antenna, Coax, Meter's, Poly-Phaser's if using them Radio's, Rotor and Tower.
Hope this help's,
Lon~Tech808
CEF#0808/HAM#001/CVC#0002
Tech808@copperelectronics.com
|
Shredder
New member
Username: Shredder
Post Number: 9
Registered: 10-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, November 27, 2008 - 8:38 pm: |
|
TECH808, in your last post to airplain1 you say to use #1 copper wire i assume #1 braided. if so would it matter if the wire is stripped of its shielding? i just put up the a-99 with gpk.its aprox. 18' ground to pl259,i made a small ground strap from pl259 to pole #6 or #8 braided, the same thing from pole to tower,then tower to rod only once with some real thick braid no numbers on it but is thick as a finger. HOW do i secure 1 wire to all three legs? hose clamps like the pl259 to pole? also near the bottum were the spark arrestor will go when it gets here(i forgot to order it..ooops) i have a barrel conector with a #6 or 8 wire hose clamped to it to the rod. swr was around 2.5 on ch1 and almost 2 on 40 b4 i ran the grounds,with the factory setting so for kicks i took ground planes off and checked swr went even higher,went backup put them back on and started turning rings had to turn them all the way down cant go any further now 1.6 on 1 and 1.2 on 40 thats the best it will do..so today i hooked up the grounds and no change at all! DO you think if if slide the gpk down it would help? or take it all down and see what it does without the gpk? im lost i was told that an a-99 could just about be lying on the ground and get good swr! im thinking the ground planes might be to close to the garage roof ? when i took them off and the swr went way up. the collar was still on, would that make a diff. 1.6 in my mind is to high unless it a 102" whip ..can you or anyone help please!! thanks~ SHREDDER |
Shredder
Junior Member
Username: Shredder
Post Number: 10
Registered: 10-2008
| | Posted on Friday, November 28, 2008 - 1:57 pm: |
|
moved gpk down did not make a diff. |
Tech808
Moderator
Username: Tech808
Post Number: 16309
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Friday, November 28, 2008 - 4:57 pm: |
|
Shredder,
Sorry for the delay in answering question's,
Question #1 ~ TECH808, in your last post to airplain1 you say to use #1 copper wire i assume #1 braided. if so would it matter if the wire is stripped of its shielding?
Answer: I recommend using Solid #1 copper ground wire for grounding Antenna/Mast/Tower to ground rod. I do not recommend using braded wire.
Question #2 ~ HOW do i secure 1 wire to all three legs?
Answer: I drilled a hole in eack leg and using a single piece of #1 copper wire bolted it to each leg and then too the Copper ground rod.
Question #3 ~ i have a barrel conector with a #6 or 8 wire hose clamped to it to the rod.
Answer: Go to Menards, Lowes or Home Depot and get a regular Copper Ground Rod clamp to connect your ground wire to the ground rod.
Question #4 ~ 1.6 on 1 and 1.2 on 40 thats the best it will do.
Answer: SWR of 1.6 and 1.2 across the band is VERY GOOD!
Lon~Tech808
CEF#0808/HAM#001/CVC#0002
Tech808@copperelectronics.com
|
Shredder
Junior Member
Username: Shredder
Post Number: 11
Registered: 10-2008
| | Posted on Friday, November 28, 2008 - 10:00 pm: |
|
TECH808--not a delay its a holiday weekend wasnt expecting anything til monday..if you remember back when i asked about coax & connectors after your reply hotwire posted to use solid wire,thicker the better.then TECH237 posted DO NOT USE SOLID WIRE FOR RF GROUNDS braided is better. this is whats confusing me. im not doubting you or him cuz,im no expert!! i went to menards & h d cant find #1 anyplace but i will go back and get the thickist solid i can for the tower legs and spark arrestor to ground rod. already have the 8' rod in.and a ground rod clamp. im just going with a barrel conector till the spark arrestor gets here - i forgot to order it. then ill run solid from it to the rod. it will be close to the rod. so for the tower legs you say bolted to each leg DO I WRAP THE WIRE AROUND THE BOLT? and then just tighten bolt? the a99 to pole will have to stay braided for now to much climbing for me the install,up and down turning them rings and 8'rod have me pooped out. being disabled stinks! i used the tune up grease on all the conections. swr of 1.6 bothers me but i guess i just deal with it. thank you for the response and hope you had a good turkey day. ~SHREDDER~ |
Tech808
Moderator
Username: Tech808
Post Number: 16315
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, November 29, 2008 - 8:39 am: |
|
DO I WRAP THE WIRE AROUND THE BOLT? and then just tighten bolt?
Yes 1 single piece of copper wire bolted to each leg of tower and then to 8' copper ground rod.
Check out these topics and it should help.
1. Subscriber (Preview): Articles: Antenna Grounding
2. Open Forum: Archived Messages: 2004: 07/01/2004 to 07/31/2004: Antenna Grounding
3. Ask The Tech: Antennas: Antenna grounding
4. Ask The Tech: Antennas: Grounding Antenna's
5. Ask The Tech: Antennas: Direct grounding mag mount antennas
6. Open Forum: Archived Messages: 2003: 01/01/2003 to 01/31/2003: Chassis grounding mag mount antenna
7. Ask The Tech: Installations: Radio and antenna grounding question
8. Ask The Tech: Antennas: GROUNDING QUESTION ON TOP ONE ANTENNA
9. Ask The Tech: Installations: Grounding
10. Ask The Tech: Installations: Grounding
11. Open Forum: Archived Messages: 2003: 09/01/2003 to 09/30/2003: Grounding
12. Open Forum: Archived Messages: 2002: 05/01/2002 to 06/30/2002: Grounding
13. Ask The Tech: General Technical Questions : Archived Messages: Grounding
14. Open Forum: Archived Messages: 2004: 07/01/2004 to 07/31/2004: Grounding
15. Open Forum: Archived Messages: 2002: 08/01/2002 to 08/31/2002: Grounding grounding grounding
Remember: Please DO NOT submit any question's to an archived topic.
Hope this help's,
Lon~Tech808
CEF#0808/HAM#001/CVC#0002
Tech808@copperelectronics.com
|
Shredder
Junior Member
Username: Shredder
Post Number: 12
Registered: 10-2008
| | Posted on Saturday, November 29, 2008 - 12:34 pm: |
|
THANKS AGAIN LON..going to geter done today.. SHREDDER |
