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Author Message   Sinker Junior Member Username: Sinker Post Number: 24 Registered: 8-2005 Posted on Saturday, September 03, 2005 - 12:18 pm:        Need some help here guys. Have not been happy with the performance of my base unit since I put it together (not long ago). Today finally talked my wife into helping me out by talking to me on the base unit while I ran to the store to get some stuff. Bottom line at 3 miles I lost contact with her but she was still receiving me at 9 S-Units loud and very clear she said, like I was next to her talking. You can view both my mobile and my base units here Link to my base and mobile units Now I know that my base Antenna is not in a prime location and believe this indeed is one major problem although it is a lot higher than my mobile unit which can make contacts further from by driveway than my base can from the house. Base Unit Now: Radio: Galaxy DX99V Microphone: Astatic D104-M6B Antenna: A-99 (no ground plane & grounded to 8’ Copper Rod) mounted to a mast approximately 23’ above ground & just below to even with peak of roof. Coax: RG8 (two 50 foot runs believe Radio Shack brand) Grounded to 8’ Copper Rod Power Supply: Boomer Deluxe 500 Base Station Power Supply & Amplifier SWR Readings (11 meters AM): Channel 1 = 1.2 / Channel 20 = 1.1 / Channel 40 = 1.0 Planned Changes: Antenna: Switching to a Top One (also a new location but am concerned that it will be MUCH closer to a Power Pole that feeds Electricity and TV to houses (25’ away) and also MUCH closer to trees that are VERY high (trees are easily in excess of 15 to 20’ above power pole)). Additional concern is I can go no higher than 30’ but also will have no availability for guide wires so 30’ isn’t even possible – Live in Florida (East Central Coast) and get routine afternoon wind gusts in excess of 60 mph during our every evening summer thunder storms and of course am worried about when Hurricanes and Tropical Storms come in. Still not sure this is the antenna to go with as presently the mast is on the corner of my house meaning part (1/4) of the antenna would be over my tar/fiberglass shingled roof. Planned move location would put ½ of the antenna over an aluminum roofed shed. If neighbors continue to complain I will have to go with something crazy like this: Force12-Flag Pole Antenna which I am sure won’t work either Coax: Switching out to LMR-400 And am thinking that this unit has problems anyway as it experiences intermittent feedback issues (no I do not run full power or full mic gain) and the side band sound terrible (yes the E-Tone (echo & stuff) is turned off). So am SERIOUSLY considering a new Base Unit Now I had another thread going Question for Mikefromms & others This thread regarded the Top One Antenna and makes me further question the use of this antenna as a result of the locations as noted above. To compound matters I have been told there are NO reputable or EXCELLENT technicians locally to fix the radio or even ask questions of. Well I have you fine folks to ask questions, now I need one of you who is an expert Technician to give me an address to send this stuff to. Now I also plan on taking Tech833 suggestions and going with the TVI Filter and PolyPahser. Open to ANY and ALL advice. PLEASE all Tech's and everyone else with some advice give me your two cents and remember I can only go 30’ absolute max from the ground. The antenna mast or tower (if I can find one) will go between the fence and the Storage Shed pictured (centered on it's peak) – this also lets you see the power pole in the background, trees to the right and power line to house on the left (presently the antenna is on the other back corner of the house but has to be moved from there due to complaints from neighbors and wife. Here is what I want: I want to be able to get out a nice strong signal that is crystal clear, loud is ok but not if it is all loud and distorted like I hear on the radio from other stations, also do not want to come over neighbors TV's, Radios, Child Monitors etc. I would like to shoot DX so I can get in on the fun on Sundays. This Sunday I will be in my Truck sitting on top of a causeway since we have no natural high spots around here. Hope to make contact tomorrow with you folks. Tim (still need a call sign name) CEF-634 Duct Tape is like the force, it has a light side a dark side and it holds the universe together.   Yankee Advanced Member Username: Yankee Post Number: 866 Registered: 7-2003 Posted on Saturday, September 03, 2005 - 1:28 pm:        Tim: First try checking all your coax connectors, making sure they are all tight, plus it is possible you have gotten a bad antenna, either the base or mobile. It could be any number of things. Try checking all you coax lines with a volt-ohm meter. Also it could even be a problem in your mobile set up, check your mobile coax run making sure it's not pinched or broken along the line some place. I personally have 3 coax lines coming from my beam and IMAX-2000. Two radios connected at any given time and something like eight, 3 foot coax jumpers in line to keep tack of. Hope this is of some help. Carl CEF-357   Mikefromms Advanced Member Username: Mikefromms Post Number: 755 Registered: 6-2003 Posted on Saturday, September 03, 2005 - 1:39 pm:        Put the Astroplane in the center of the yard so it has good earth beneath all around. The coax change is good. You'll be surprised how it performs even barefooted. mikefromms   Moderator136 Moderator Username: Moderator136 Post Number: 104 Registered: 4-2005 Posted on Saturday, September 03, 2005 - 1:45 pm:        Sinker Do reverse order! Put the mobile in the base and base in the mobile and try again! It will tell you if its the antenna or your base! I also think that it is the base unit that your having trouble with. You did mention your swr is 1.1 on channel 20. What happens when you turn the boomer on full power? whats the swr reading? Moderator136 CEF136 kc0svc   Hotwire Advanced Member Username: Hotwire Post Number: 528 Registered: 1-2005 Posted on Saturday, September 03, 2005 - 1:58 pm:        Well Sinker it seems to me you have done everything correct. You also seem to have the inclination needed for this hobby. I think your antenna is good. I would inspect coax and then maybe swapping out radios with the one in the truck to see if it is a radio issue. Did you try without the amp inline? I'm sure you will have it all figured out soon. You want that good clean audio hey? My rule? TAKE YOUR TIME. Go over everything! Hope to make contact soon. 73 kenny Your friend on this end Hotwire CEF 491 Franklin,Indiana   Hotwire Advanced Member Username: Hotwire Post Number: 529 Registered: 1-2005 Posted on Saturday, September 03, 2005 - 2:04 pm:        Sinker I just noticed you have 2, 50 foot runs of coax. Are you using 100 feet of coax for some reason? This could be a problem. Any extra coax should never be wrapped up in a coil. Always use the least amount of coax you need with minimal turns and bends. Hope this helps.   Dx431 Senior Member Username: Dx431 Post Number: 1088 Registered: 2-2002 Posted on Saturday, September 03, 2005 - 3:13 pm:        I will have to agree with Hotwire and Moderator136. Try switching radios and see what happens.   Nobodyknows Member Username: Nobodyknows Post Number: 90 Registered: 4-2005 Posted on Saturday, September 03, 2005 - 6:25 pm:        The first thing i thought of was that 1. bad/weak power out from the base. Did you test the base radio with the antenna coax hooked up DIRECTLY to the radio? I agree with everyone else that said swap radios, and i'd still get everything extra out of line. Radio to antenna with no boomer, no swr meter. Then post if that cured your problem. The Antron 99 gets out pretty good, mine is about 25 feet from ground to feed point and I can talk to just about anyone that i can hear.   Road_warrior Advanced Member Username: Road_warrior Post Number: 805 Registered: 7-2004 Posted on Saturday, September 03, 2005 - 6:56 pm:        First of all find out whats going on with your base unit/A-99. Like others said, switch radios. Check coax, connectors, jumpers, ect. Since your base radio seems to be recieving fine, could be transmit part of your radio is really weak. Check things out until you pinpoint problem. On a A-99, Imax 2000, Maco 5/8,the mast pipe attaches right below feedpoint,so, all of antenna is above the mast. Mast also attaches right below feedpoint of Top One, but, feedpoint of Top One is 8ft up from bottom hoop of antenna. It will take an extra 8 ft of mast to gain equal height as compared to the other antennas mentioned above. Something to consider. SINKER/ Why your neighbors complaining??? When you say 30ft is that to top tip or bottom of antennas???   Sinker Junior Member Username: Sinker Post Number: 24 Registered: 8-2005 Posted on Saturday, September 03, 2005 - 8:40 pm:        OK – well now I am really confused. Yankee – Checked all the connections, everything is tight. I have a meter but not sure how I should check the cable. ??? Mikefromms – Hear what your saying but if I put the antenna in the middle of the yard my wife would kill me as my daughter uses the entire yard has her playground – which is nice and I don’t want to take that away from her – guess I lose. Moderator136 – OK this is where I got confused about this entire thing. Let me answer the second question first. If I put the boomer on full power my swr goes up to 1.2 Now the crazy part switched radios and got the same problem although we did also notice the radio in the truck is not of the same quality of the one now on the base so switched them back. Found a Uniden Pro 510XL in the box of stuff I got so hooked it up to the base and used the D104 mic. That little radio sounds HUGE but it too would transmit to me at 3 miles but received me fine just like the first situation that caused me to ask for help. Same scenario it could hear me fine and seems to even pick up stations better than the DX99V does. So on the base radio setup – regardless of what radio I use – I get GREAT receive but can’t transmit with a darn. Hotwire – Did as you said and took everything out of line and ran the antenna cable straight to the radio – No change, same problem Also yes I am using 100’ of coax (two 50’ sections with a coupler in between) – 50’ of cable was not enough to go from the antenna into my office and even with the extra 50’ I only have about 10’ of extra cable which is not coiled. Not many turns either except where I ran it down the wall and then out to the radio. Dx431 – Tried but still same problem. Nobodyknows – That’s how I feel right now – I tried all that you said still have same problem. Road warrior – Every radio I hook up has the same issue – receives GREAT but transmits terrible. Guess I do not understand what the Feed Point is on the antenna – Thought it was where the coax connected to the antenna. If that is the feed point then how do you get it to hold onto the mast? Or is the feed point where the fiberglass starts. As for the neighbors, they seem to think they live in a fancy area or something and think my mast and antenna is unsightly. I could be a jerk and just not care as there are no rules saying I can’t have it but also know if I come over their TV I will have a visitor at my door right quick. If I move the antenna to over by the shed it is actually somewhat shielded from view by the trees in the vacant lot next to me and the regular mode of traffic would not allow for them to see it easily but of course then I have to deal with the trees and power pole etc. Oh yeah the mast is presently only about 23’ above ground then plus the antenna which is like another 15’ or however long an A-99 antenna is – so I guess 23’ to feed point and about 38’ to tip. So conclusion is a transmitting problem but with it being with all radios I try I was thinking some where in the cable or antenna but then why would it receive so well, so think maybe the way I have the antenna on the side of the house is screwing things up. I don’t know as I am really at a loss now and completely confused. Or maybe I have this all backwards but I thought that a base station with an antenna higher in the air should transmit farther than a mobile setup – Is this correct? About ready to start over from scratch as I want to move the antenna to keep things civil with the neighbors and if the Top One is a better idea then I will buy it but still concerned about it being half over the shed thing. Eventually wanted to get a real base station but not until I had the new antenna and cable (that LMR-400 stuff that Tech833 suggested) along with the PolyPahser and TVI Filter. I want to do it right with the best stuff and worry about the radio last as I would like to save up for a real nice one and maybe even will have my license by then. I can be pretty patient waiting for something new but have no patience when what I have doesn’t work right – drives me crazy . Can an Antenna receive but not be able to transmit???   Bc910 Advanced Member Username: Bc910 Post Number: 608 Registered: 7-2004 Posted on Saturday, September 03, 2005 - 9:07 pm:        Yes!! (To your final question) I would try just for giggles putting a mobile antenna on the base at the roof (or a dipole) run the base BAREFOOT! Make sure the SWR is below 1.5/1 and try it that way. Obviously a mobile antenna should perform worse than a base but it should get out better than 3 miles, if that is the case than the antron is bad. As many Antrons that I have had and had good experiences with there have been just as many that I have had trouble with. One of the Techs have reviewed the A-99 on this site somewhere and basically says why they aren’t "the best" Not bad remind you just not the best. Once they break, they are broke! Which is why I am still partial to the big ugly aluminum antennas, when they break or bend or what ever I can fix it? Here is an experiment, take a coat hanger, stretch it out to a straight piece, connect it to the radio somehow and notice how well it receives, it actually will surprise you how well a cb receives with just a coat hanger. BUT DONT TRANSMIT! Your transmit will be VERY short and your SWR's will be terrible and you WILL hurt your radio so again, DONT TRANSMIT! But instead just notice how good the receive is considering what it is and how bad of an antenna is. Just like your Antron it could be receiving OK but not transmitting OK. I had a Dosy SWR meter once that would show a flat match with NO ANTENNA!!! OR COAX HOOKED UP!!! So some meters can be wrong, try a different SWR meter. Your receive (as good as it is now) (assuming your antenna is bad) will get tons better! BTW The Uniden 510XL is ONE HECK OF A RADIO!!! I don't know what it is about those things but they talk! Well I think that is about it, BC   Kid_vicious Advanced Member Username: Kid_vicious Post Number: 558 Registered: 9-2004 Posted on Saturday, September 03, 2005 - 9:37 pm:        sinker, i understand all too well the woes of having neighbors who just dont understand that THEIR electronics equipment is cheap and thats why it get interfered with. BUT, lets make sure it's not you who is the offender. the only way to do this right is to start at the very beginning. now, if i'm going to take the time to type this; you have to try what i suggest in it's entirety. you cant skip steps and just assume that this or that one isnt important. OK? OK. let's get started. first, unhook all your base station equipment. undo all coax connections, take all plugs out of the wall. take all ground connections off of coax. remove coax from antenna. basically, TAKE APART EVERYTHING. Now you should have an antron up in the air about 23' to the base right? and also a bunch of radio stuff lying around the room. get your longest SINGLE piece of coax, no barrel connectors, and inspect it for kinks, shaven off insulation, bad connectors, etc. after concluding that your coax is OK, put some dielectric grease in the connector. (the kind you use on your spark plugs when doing a tune up). attatch this end to the antenna. finger tight is not good enough. give it one good 1/4 turn with a pair of pliers. (no he-man action though.) now you need to hook up the base radio in the house or in the yard somewhere close enough to the antenna so that you dont need to splice two pieces together. get a power strip, the six outlet things, and plug your power supply/amp into it. connect the radio to the power supply, and dont set the radio on top of the power supply. the radio should not be touching the power supply. now key up the radio and check your swr; amp off. if its good (1.5 or better), then check with the neighbor to see if you are still bleeding on them. (im curious to know exactly what devices are being affected) if not, turn on the amp, and check again. if still no bleedover, then you've narrowed your problem to the ground wires. they are actually radiating a signal, and need to be shortened to less than about 6 foot. they should never be longer than that. if you got this radio used, then there is a good chance that it has had the modulation limiter removed and no amount of grounding or otherwise will stop the bleedover until this part is restored or adjusted properly. try your mobile radio intead, see if there's a difference. as for low pass filters, i always run one. DRAKE makes good ones that you can find on *bay. make sure it is the last thing in line before your antenna. here is my suggestion for your new install. see where you have that scanner antenna? i would move that antenna somewhere else, and put a 30' pole up right where it was. put a TOP ONE antenna on the mast and make sure there is a good elctrical connection from the top of the mast all the way to the ground. sink the 30' pole into the ground about two feet. pound in a ground rod right next to the base of the mast and connect them with 2 guage wire or bigger, no longer than 1 foot. at 20' up on the mast, put a guy wire ring and mount three guy wires to it. use about a three inch length, attatched to an "egg" insulator, and then the long run of wire. this will prevent the guy wires from radiating a signal (TVI!) run one guy wire to the shed, and the other two to the opposite corners of the house. use the LMR400 coax, and consider making a "balun" out of some coiled coax. (do a search for more on this). run the coax to your station, into a low pass filter, onto a "good" jumper, to the amp, to another "good" jumper, to the radio. get a piece of copper plumbing pipe and mount it to the back of your operating desk/bench. use 2 ga. wire to get from the pipe to a ground rod right outside the operating location. you should make every attempt to keep this wire less than 6 feet long. if the ground wire gets longer than this, you run the risk of it "radiating" a signal. (TVI!) now run small grounding straps, from all station equipment, (radio, amp, low pass filter) to the copper pipe. doing all this, along with making sure your radio isnt a splatterbox, will pretty much ensure no TVI coming out of your station. if the neighbor has problems still, it's their fault and they will hae to upgrade just like you did. good luck, im happy to answer any questions that this post may have raised. sorry so long, matt   Sinker Junior Member Username: Sinker Post Number: 25 Registered: 8-2005 Posted on Saturday, September 03, 2005 - 9:46 pm:        Thanks Bc910 I saw a mirror mount antenna in the box as well so will try it on the roof and see what happens. Yes that little tiny Uniden Pro 510XL SMOKES - I could not believe the way it sounded. Shows me, I got this big box of radio stuff and just kinda disregarded it because it was so small but I think it sounds better than all the other radios. Crazy little thing. I'm going to have to find a nice little place for it now as it impresses me a lot. Guess fancy buttons, lights and switches don't make a radio. Another lesson learned. Feels like I am taking a crash course.   Road_warrior Advanced Member Username: Road_warrior Post Number: 806 Registered: 7-2004 Posted on Saturday, September 03, 2005 - 10:14 pm:        Barrel connectors can go bad also. My friend about 2 months ago showed me his. Shot! Put a new one on and everything started working ok...Try Kids advice and let us know what happens. JIM/ CEF 375   Vanillagorilla Intermediate Member Username: Vanillagorilla Post Number: 175 Registered: 4-2005 Posted on Saturday, September 03, 2005 - 10:15 pm:        I have to ask...since you have the same problems with either radio and yer checking yourself with the mobile..could it be that the problem is on the other end? In other words maybe its the receive in the mobile thats lacking? I'm having a hard time swallowing bad transmit 3 miles with very good SWR's with any radio you try. A bad antron breaking down inside (like MINE TODAY!) will show itself in bad SWRs..likewise with the coax. My feeling it that there is something simple we're not seeing or overlooking. Can someone else out there give you a radio check to confirm your low output? I think you might want to look at your mobile install although I'm sure your showing good SWR's there as well. Reminds me of a friend who had his RF gain turned down for a week and tried everything! Sometimes we all think too hard! Best of luck! I'll be thinking about this one! Hank '905 CEF 559   Sinker Junior Member Username: Sinker Post Number: 26 Registered: 8-2005 Posted on Saturday, September 03, 2005 - 10:39 pm:        Kid vicious - Not going to lie, I may have to read this one a few times to let it sink in. Right now though I AM NOT bleeding over anyones TV or anything and just want to make sure I DON'T especially if I go with a new Antenna and Station - Especially if I am moving the antenna closer to the power pole that also runs everyones cable TV. I just know that IF I did bleed over they will call the FCC and anyone else they can. Already had to take the cars out of the garage and put the boat in there and the camper in the back yard instead of on my truck in the driveway (seems the city did have ordinances with those). I do not even come over my own TV's even with the amp on - HOWEVER, we have those touch lamps (you know touch them and they turn on and off) well whenever I key up they turn on, key up again and they go up to the next level, key up again and go higher, key up again and about 50% of the time I can turn them back off. That is the ONLY interference problem I am having. Other than that the neighbors just don't like seeing it. Guess we should have built our house some place else. Now from what you wrote I have done some things wrong. I had a coax coupler that I used at the antenna and attached my coax to it as it had the parts for the grounding wire attachment. I ran copper wire from there all the way down to my grounding rod (so 23' of it), thats what the guy at the local CB shop told me to do. My base mast is in one foot dirt at the bottom and then 2.5' (rest of the way to ground level) is in concrete. My grounding rod is 8' Copper and pounded 7 feet into the earth. I never grounded the mast itself as I figured the bottom foot being in earth did that plus the connection of the antenna to the mast with the grounding wire coupler would have taken care of that. I do not have the equipment in my office grounded but can do so and it will be right at about 6' from units to ground rod. The scanner mast is set them same as the antenna mast but the 8' Copper rod is only about 5 feet in the earth as when digging the hole for the mast I started getting water seepage into the hole (we have a VERY low water table). I will try your suggestions (step by step) but not crazy about having to go back and take all that coax back out of the attic and walls as it's a lot of work and hotter than blazes up there. I do not know what an Egg Insulator is or a Balun so will have to research those things. Never thought but yeah the SWR Meter could be bad. I got all this stuff from my buddies family after he past away. He was into this stuff big time. Not sure why they gave it to me but figured since they did I would use it and love this stuff (Except for this one problem) and am pretty much hooked. Only problem is I know very little about all this but trying to learn from reading the threads here and other places although here is the only place I post. People here seem more knowledgeable, abide by a least some set of values and don't trash talk one another nor is there seemingly any competition to have the biggest baddest radio on the block. Thanks for some more stuff to try out. I will work on it tomorrow AFTER I try to talk to some of you on CEF NET. BTW not sure what if anything has been done to these radios as far as modifications, also had the Uniden and a Cobra radio in the box. I put the cobra in our van it too has a Wilson 1000 antenna but it is a magnetic mount and has a neat short antenna on it - they guy at the shop said it was a coil and that he had never seen one before but it says Wilson on it as well. Also have a bunch of microphones, some look brand new (two brand new looking Telex Turner Road King 56 microphones and another one that looks heavily used, also a cobra mic that looks very similar, some more short jumper cables and other odds and ends like the mirror mount antenna (think it is a Fire Stick) and a Wilson Mini or something like that magnet mount antenna as well). NO PAPERWORK though but you guys have been a GREAT HELP - THANK YOU ALL AGAIN). Thank you all for bearing with this new guy (ME) and questions that probably seem very basic to you. I really do appreciate it.   Sinker Junior Member Username: Sinker Post Number: 27 Registered: 8-2005 Posted on Saturday, September 03, 2005 - 10:47 pm:        Road warrior I will replace those connectors. Vanillagorilla You gave me chills and I had to run out to the truck to check the RF GAIN but it was set fine. I guess you could be right but again then the problem would be reversed I can transmit fine on the mobile but not receive worth a darn. You know now that I think about it whenever I go under power lines I get A LOT and I do mean A LOT of static, seems fluorescent lighting is even worse and will even get the static from Stop Lights - whats with that??? I think you may be right, I may be looking to deep and have the actual problem staring me in the face but just can't see it.   Kid_vicious Advanced Member Username: Kid_vicious Post Number: 559 Registered: 9-2004 Posted on Saturday, September 03, 2005 - 11:07 pm:        agreed vanillagorilla, it's probably something so simple that we're all overlooking it. sinker, take his advice and check the stupid stuff, like your RF gain control. it should be all the way clockwise pretty much all the time. the only time to turn it down is when some one is hitting you with +30 s- units or more. (in the red) just thought about this one, and please dont take offense, but are you sure you are calibrating your swr meter correcly before you take these readings? Remember, the SWR meter merely "reads" the swr, it has nothing to do with the actual adjustment of the SWR. that can only be done via the tuning rings on the bottom of your antron 99. here's how in case you didnt know: hook up in this order. radio to amp to swr meter to antenna. with the amp OFF, turn your mic gain all the way down (counterclockwise) on the radio or the mic. doesnt matter which, we just dont want any modulation getting through. now, set the swr meter to "calibrate" or "cal". make sure you have it set to show SWR and not power output, as some meters have settings for both. key the mic, and turn the knob on the swr meter until the needle deflects all the way over to the "cal" mark. make sure it is right on the mark, as your accuracy depends on it. now, with the mic still keyed, switch the meter to the SWR position. the needle will fall to the left and show you what your swr is. if it falls all the way back to the left and shows no reading, that is a "perfect" antenna. or 1 to 1 swr. this can never really be acheived in the real world and we all try for the closest we can get to this unreachable goal. if the needle moved down to 1.5 or less, then you are doing great. if it is more than 1.5, go to the antenna and turn the rings up or down to get the swr lower. (the rings should always be tight against eachother) here's how to know whether to turn the rings up or down. do your first swr check on ch.1 write down the reading. re-calibrate the meter on ch.40 (you have to recalibrate any time you change channels to get a true reading) take a reading on ch.40. if the reading on ch.1 is lower than the reading on ch.40 then turn the rings up, about 1/2 turn between checks, recalibrating each time. if the reading on ch.40 was lower than the reading on ch.1 then turn the rings down. same rules apply. there is a lot of climbing involved i know, and to further complicate things, you cant have someone checking the swr inside as you are on the roof adjusting because your body will mess up the readings. good luck. matt   Tech808 Moderator Username: Tech808 Post Number: 6946 Registered: 8-2002 Posted on Saturday, September 03, 2005 - 11:49 pm:        Sinker, Yes, Wilson does make a Shorter Loaded Coil Antenna. The Short Load adapts to the Wilson 500 and all models of the Wilson 1000, 5000, Trucker 2000 and the Trucker 5000. Center Loaded Antennas Short Load Adapter You can also go to the Wilson Tech Site for information on Testing / Checking your Antennas. Technical Support Testing the Antennas Hope this helps, Lon Tech808 CEF808 N9OSN   Dx431 Senior Member Username: Dx431 Post Number: 1090 Registered: 2-2002 Posted on Sunday, September 04, 2005 - 12:07 am:        Vanillagorilla, I was thinkin the very same thing. It just seemed a little odd with a SWR that low that he would be transmitting only 3 miles but receiveing fine. After revamping the base setup, and he has the same results, then I'm willing to bet it's in the moble. Sinker, try getting a radio check from another base station in your area. If they hear you fine, then we know where the problem is.   Hotwire Advanced Member Username: Hotwire Post Number: 534 Registered: 1-2005 Posted on Sunday, September 04, 2005 - 12:13 am:        Maybe you are just in a bad area for an antenna. Some people call them dead spots. I really don't know if there is such a phenomenom but I'm as confused as you.   Patzerozero Senior Member Username: Patzerozero Post Number: 1382 Registered: 7-2004 Posted on Sunday, September 04, 2005 - 12:58 am:        SWR's can be LOW LOW LOW, yet show HIGH HIGH HIGH reflected POWER, due to location of antenna in relation to...something that could reflect the power back into the radio. whether that be a ground loop or actual physical placement of antenna. it could cause directivity of receive, and send 50% of the output power BACK to the radio & give you fits when the swr meter shows less then 1.3:1. but a meter with reflect on it shows 100 watts out & 60 or more watts coming back.(my predator is fine ANYWHERE on roof of durango, even on the hood! the astatic 3k only was good at far rear or far front of roof, in middle reflect went UP. UP HIGH, yet swr's would only vary 1.2-1.8, & reflect would say 50-90%) that problem could be either base or mobile.   Road_warrior Advanced Member Username: Road_warrior Post Number: 808 Registered: 7-2004 Posted on Sunday, September 04, 2005 - 1:14 am:        Odd indeed. Either in mobile or somethings hay-wire with that A-99. But, it sounds like antenna is working as it recieves good. Scratching head.../ You say your mobile talks better than your A-99 does while sitting in your driveway. Sinker- How much better??? Does your mobile recieve good while sitting in your driveway compared to your A-99??? hummmm   Kid_vicious Advanced Member Username: Kid_vicious Post Number: 564 Registered: 9-2004 Posted on Sunday, September 04, 2005 - 2:06 am:        sinker, i hope that you read this before you go into the attic. my post was to try and give you a good starting point so that you dont end up scratching your head after eight hours of work. you dont need to unhook all the coax, yet. first, get rid of the coupler at the antenna. put that coax connector right on the antenna. the guy at your local CB shop knows as much about radio as most cb'ers do. which is not that much. the way he told you to ground your system would not protect it from a lightning strike very well and will cause more problems then its worth. you do want your antenna grounded though, so here are a few suggestions: get some copper "braid" that is 1 1/2" wide. (its flat with a bunch of stranded copper "braided" together. the fact that this wire is flat along with the fact that it has a large surface area are the keys to its effectiveness. attatch this braid to one of the mounting brackets that holds the antenna to the mast. (the 10 inches or so of aluminum at the bottom of your antron is the ground, so you can attatch the ground wire to anything that touches it. the bracket is best though.) run this wire all the way down to your ground rod and solder it on with a torch or use the proper grounding clamp like the one to your cold water pipe. your ground rods should be pounded all the way into the ground until the top is about 6" below the surface. if you cant pound them in that far, you need to cut them off at ground level or just below. you can also use the mast as your ground wire and just attatch it to your ground rod, just make sure that all mast pieces are electrically connected well. (no paint, maybe some screws through the sections.) each connection that you have in the coax line will cause a loss, the more you have, the more the loss. the best case scenario being radio to coax to antenna. after you set the swr properly, take the swr meter out of line. only keep in line what you need to talk. those barrel connectors are the bane of your existance. i wouldnt bother messing with the cables now if you're not causing any interference. if your swr on the base antenna is good, and you're not causing TVI, then my guess is that the problem lies inside the shack. if i understand you correctly, you have the radio connected to the boomer with a jumper cable, and then another jumper cable to the swr meter and then the swr meter to the antenna cable. we're going to do some troubleshooting: first, the amp. if its bad, then you might be losing all your signal here. (you're going to need someone in the mobile or a friend on another radio to judge the results of your tests) AMP OFF! let's make sure that you have the amp hooked up properly. the coax jumper from your radio should be connected to the terminal on the back of the boomer labled "radio" or "rec" or "xmtr" etc... the jumper going to the swr meter should be connected to the terminal labled "ant" or "antenna" etc... the cable going from the boomer to the swr meter should be connected to the terminal on the back of the swr meter labled "rec" or "radio" and the cable to the antenna should be connected to the "ant" terminal. OK, get a radio check from your helper, and note the reading they give you. (s-5 or five pounds etc.) now turn the amp on and get another radio check. note the change in the reading you get. it should have increased by about two s-units (the numbers on the radio meter that go from 1 to +30) if your amp is working properly. if there is no change in their reading, then your amp is not working right and you shoud take it out of line. you can still power the radio from it, but dont connect any coax to it. just run the jumper from the radio right to the swr meter. we should also test all your jumpers to make sure none of them are too old or bad. the way to do this is to run a jumper from the radio directly to the swr meter and then check the swr. do this with all of your jumpers. if any of them cause your swr reading to rise, throw it away. it will only cause you headaches later. if you take that amp out of line, and still have an swr of 1.5 or lower, and you still cant get out more then three miles, then you live in a space warp or your mobile's receive is messed up. good luck. matt hope to hear you on the net. #410   Vanillagorilla Intermediate Member Username: Vanillagorilla Post Number: 178 Registered: 4-2005 Posted on Sunday, September 04, 2005 - 6:21 am:        Sinker...maybe you missed my point? I didn't mean it was the radios fault in the mobile but rather the antenna or coax out there. (RF gain comment was just one instance for a friend...I knew you switched radios so I couldn't suggest that)Speaking of dead spots though... (would be yer luck to move into one wouldn't it?) Perhaps yer DRIVING into one? Can you get out to say 10mi away on the open road and phone home to get someone to turn on the base for a check? Just more food for thought...hope it helps and not further confuses things! PATZEROZERO said :"SWR's can be LOW LOW LOW, yet show HIGH HIGH HIGH reflected POWER, due to location of antenna in relation to..." Alrighty then..I need more schoolin'... I thought (basically) the difference between forward and reflected power dictated yer SWR? EX:When I look at my cross needle MFJ I see forward and (hopefully NOT much!)reflected power. Where these two needles intersect is where I read my SWR. How can I have low SWR but high reflected power? Pat00 gettin all techy an stuff again you know you hurt my brain when you get that way right? Hank-in-shteen CEF 559   Vanillagorilla Intermediate Member Username: Vanillagorilla Post Number: 179 Registered: 4-2005 Posted on Sunday, September 04, 2005 - 6:34 am:        Sinker just had a look at yer stuff again in the phots section...so jelious I REFUSE to help any further Kidding..I'm a kidder. Just for the record while I was drooling I noticed something...your trying to recieve in the truck right? You tried the boomers pre-amp in "on" and "OFF" mode? If the pre-amp itself takes a dump it'll make recieve go WAY below average in the "on" position. See that its "off" and try again. More food for ya brain...now gimmie that truck~ Mr. Hanky CEF 559   Yankee Advanced Member Username: Yankee Post Number: 867 Registered: 7-2003 Posted on Sunday, September 04, 2005 - 7:51 am:        sounds like the 23 foot ground wire is part of the problem. Take that ground wire off and the lightning protector out of line. hook your coax line direct to the antenna. I'm a fond believer of measured coax,also I don't use that cheap coax from Radio Shack. Most of my coax and jumpers are good grade Belden 90% shielded. If you have to have a long run of coax it needs to be one length of coax with no barrel connectors. measure your coax in multiples of 9 foot, which is a quarter wave length at 27 MHz. 9X9=81 foot of coax or 10x9=90 foot, coax length is very important. You asked how to check your coax with a volt-ohm meter, with you coax unhooked and stright, (not coiled up). Check center to center and shield to shield, if you don't get a reading on you meter your coax or solder connections on your PL-259s are bad. I could be wrong, but I think you are also transmitting on that 23 foot ground wire. As my friends here have said keep your ground wires at no more than 6 foot, you may have to have more than one copper ground rod,one for your antenna system and another just out side your radio room to ground your station, many of us use a grounding bar to ground our station equipment and a ground wire between the grounding bar and the ground rod just out side your station. Your coax jumpers need to be 3 foot or multiples there of, depending on the length of coax needed to hook up the pieces of your station, and not hooking two 3 foot jumpers together with a barrel connector. Measuring coax is not an over kill, IT'S IMPORTANT. Hope this has also been of some help, this is the way my station is hooked up. I have a PDL-ll, verticle, horizontal beam and an IMAX-2000 omni antenna in the air and on all three coax lines, my SWRs are 1 to 1. yes, it took a lot of tuning, but the performance of my station was well worth the time spent getting a low match. My station has 4 radios on line, using coax switches, a four position for the radios and a three position for the three antenna coax lines. Carl CEF-357   Sinker Junior Member Username: Sinker Post Number: 28 Registered: 8-2005 Posted on Sunday, September 04, 2005 - 8:14 am:        Vanillagorilla - I have not been using the amps except when testing stuff. I will try that though too - I will try anything right now. Have a funny feeling I am going to be VERY EMBARRASSED when I find out the problem as it is probably something so simple. As for the truck - heheehe - With the foot on the pedal of that HEMI and the Serpentine Super Charger running plan on about 6 to 8 mpg - and $100.00 to fill her up. With gas prices as they are now guess it will sit in the drive a good bit. Gotta get to church so I can be back for the CEF NET Time. Then lots more testing :-(   Mikefromms Advanced Member Username: Mikefromms Post Number: 756 Registered: 6-2003 Posted on Sunday, September 04, 2005 - 9:29 am:        As a last resort to neighbor problems and still have some good performance, I read where a ham operator inserted a 7' skipshooter mobile antenna into a fiberglass flag pole and got good results. Unless your power is really high, you should not bother neighbors cable tv. mikefromms   Bigbob Senior Member Username: Bigbob Post Number: 2162 Registered: 12-2001 Posted on Sunday, September 04, 2005 - 11:23 am:        You got this stuff from a deceased friends family?Hmmm,sounds much like my dad-in-laws's problem,could recieve the entire world but could not get out worth a toot,got all of his "stuff" from a dead friend.We finally put a watt meter and dummy load on far end of coax,swr meter at radio,with full power from radio and 125 watt amp,swr was 1.2,watt meter was reading 1 watt,we cut open coax and it was all green inside and the dieelectric was gooey and extruding through the shield,threw it away and went to radioshack and got some mini-8,not the best choice but after all the testing he can get out 90 miles on ssb with amp,and still hear all the world,you have to remember that the reciever has around a 132db gain built in,so a coathanger recieves well,but your transmitter has about 15db gain and you have to worry about swr,my bet is the coax,simple and most overlooked and taken for granted.Bigbob   Bigbob Senior Member Username: Bigbob Post Number: 2163 Registered: 12-2001 Posted on Sunday, September 04, 2005 - 11:57 am:        What's with this "don't coil your coax",I can understand not doing this with twin lead it forms an inductor and screws up your swr,but coax?The conductor you're concerned about is shielded and could care less if it was straight or tightly coiled,and I have made tests with an swr/watt meter to prove it,the only difference is the additional losses attributed to the additional coax.I've got 12 feet of mini-8 coax coiled in an 8 inch coil at antenna feed point,then two silver pl-259s and a barrel connector 75 feet of rg-8u,two more silver pl-259s and barrel connector,then 35 feet of mini-8 to my station,1.17 to 1 swr and a coax loss of 2% when tested with the down line watt meter and dummy load,so I have a 4% overall loss,big deal,and I mixed my coax,foam and solid dieelectric and ran just what was nessesary to get to my station.My radio then 6 feet of rg58au(yeah the good stuff with foam dieelectrc and 98% shield)then my amp then 18 inches of mini-8 then the pickup for my swr meter then 4 feet of mini-8 then my mfj low pass filter then 8 feet of mini-8 then 2 pl259s a barrel connector then my outdoor run of coax,as simple as I can put it.I used to be a believer in multiples of half waves of coax,just too darn much work,and you can usually get what you want in swr's with a couple of 18 inch jumpers to play with.Bigbob   Hotwire Advanced Member Username: Hotwire Post Number: 537 Registered: 1-2005 Posted on Sunday, September 04, 2005 - 1:53 pm:        Trying to help Sinker, not start a coax debate.   Road_warrior Advanced Member Username: Road_warrior Post Number: 809 Registered: 7-2004 Posted on Sunday, September 04, 2005 - 6:49 pm:        Even in dead spots antenna should transmit and recieve about the same. So, i'd be surprised if that was a problem. You been saying your buying new coax. Get some and make a straight run from your antenna to radio. If your going to use a barrel connector, replace your old ones with new ones. Leave your Amp and SWR meter unhooked, place connector of coax straight in your radio. (Make sure SWRS are good before unhooking SWR meter)... Now have someone help you take S-unit readings on transmit and recieve. If antenna is good things should start working for you. If things are still not working your antenna is shot. Ok, lets say it starts working good. Now, hook up your SWR meter only and take more S-unit readings. Things should remain close to the same. Now, if its still working good,, hook your amp up along with your SWR meter. Things should still remain close to the same. You might lose alittle signal with all that stuff inline. Take that into account. If something goes hay-wire while putting SWR meter or Amp in line, then your know where problem lays. Also get the ground system hooked up correctly. Hope this helps>>>>>>>>>>> JIM/ CENTRAL PA   Tech808 Moderator Username: Tech808 Post Number: 6951 Registered: 8-2002 Posted on Sunday, September 04, 2005 - 7:32 pm:        Everyone who has posted above is Trying to help with Sinkers problem / questions. Sorry, but I see No Coax Debate starting anywhere above. Lon Tech808 CEF808 N9OSN   Kid_vicious Advanced Member Username: Kid_vicious Post Number: 565 Registered: 9-2004 Posted on Sunday, September 04, 2005 - 9:48 pm:        sinker, there are about 10,000 pages worth of material on the internet on the debate about coax length. the explanations are long, and can get very scientific. and you cant forget that even if Albert Einstein himself told them; there are some people who just have it engrained in their brain that coax length matters. please trust me on this. when using a VERTICAL antenna such as your antron99 or the Top One antenna, the coax length does not matter!!! do not worry about multiples of this and that. just use enough to get from the antenna to the radio without stretching or sharply bending the coax. the whole point of using coax instead of just a piece of wire is that it is not supposed to radiate the signal. that is what the antenna is for. if changing the coax length is changing your swr then the coax is trying to radiate the signal and you definitely have a problem with your antenna that can only be corrected at the antenna. to everyone who wants to flame me now; please dont post a reply about the difference between the reading at the antenna end versus the reading at the radio end. we all know this is not an issue in sinker's case. i am not trying to fuel the coax fires, but we are trying to give sinker a good foundation to start from. if we confuse him with unrelated facts about coaxial cable or anything else for that matter, we are doing him a disservice. bigbob, i think the "dont coil your coax" thing comes from the polyphaser website, in which they describe how it can create some inductance or something when lightning hits it and basically it isnt good. you'll have to check their site for the real scoop. hope the mystery is solved soon sinker! matt   Road_warrior Advanced Member Username: Road_warrior Post Number: 810 Registered: 7-2004 Posted on Sunday, September 04, 2005 - 10:23 pm:        By the way Sinker: The feedpoint of an antenna is where the coax connector plugs into. Some antennas have the feedpoint near the bottom of the antenna, some are up higher like the Top One. If you look at a picture of the Top One, the feedpoint is 8ft up from the bottom hoop. Mast runs 8ft up inside the antenna and hooks into clamps. Then there is roughly 3 1/2-4 ft of radial above that and the top spokes sticking out. What i'm trying to say is this: If your house was 20ft tall and you mounted a A-99 on top of 20ft of mast. Your A-99 would be 20ft above ground and bottom of A-99 would be even with the top of your house. Now, if you mount a Top One on that 20 ft mast and place it along side your 20ft house. The bottom hoop of the Top One would only be 12 ft above ground. So, it would take 28 ft of mast to get bottom of antenna even with the top of your house. Now the Top One radiates more from the top, but, still only 4 ft of the top of the antenna would be sticking over the top of the house roof. But, if you have a 12 ft house, your set to go.   Bruce Senior Member Username: Bruce Post Number: 3101 Registered: 9-2003 Posted on Sunday, September 04, 2005 - 11:12 pm:        Kid Im with you it does not matter. Now coiling near the antenna base CAN help with TVI SOME.   Kid_vicious Advanced Member Username: Kid_vicious Post Number: 570 Registered: 9-2004 Posted on Monday, September 05, 2005 - 12:17 am:        i tell you what bruce; i have eight turns of lmr400 wrapped around a 10" sono tube. i know its not the best for a lightning strike, but it killed any tvi i was causing. i love it. matt   Hollowpoint445 Advanced Member Username: Hollowpoint445 Post Number: 737 Registered: 6-2004 Posted on Monday, September 05, 2005 - 8:26 am:        RF propogates through coax just like it propogates through free space. Simply stating that coax length doesn't matter is an oversimplification. About the only reason it makes a difference for the average CBer is the accuracy of VSWR readings at the radio end of the coax. Half wavelength multiples allow you to read an accurate VSWR at the coax end, and odd quarter wavelengths can show very inaccurate VSWR readings if the match of the antenna is not perfect. Is it that important? Not really - especially if the antenna has a good match. Do I bother to cut my coax to specific lengths? No, I own an MFJ 259B so I can see the complex impedance of my antenna system and I can tell if something has changed.   Bigbob Senior Member Username: Bigbob Post Number: 2170 Registered: 12-2001 Posted on Monday, September 05, 2005 - 10:28 am:        I would have to say it's one of three things,bad coax or bad antenna or antenna is to close to some piece of metal vertical like it pipe,tower,wire or wires,metal siding on house or barn or other out building,heck an unterminated piece of coax strung up a tree can wreak havoc.Anything within the immediate vicinity of the antenna that is metal and vertical can distort radiation patterns.Bigbob   Sinker Junior Member Username: Sinker Post Number: 29 Registered: 8-2005 Posted on Monday, September 05, 2005 - 10:45 am:        Well last night as I was losing sleep over all this I came up with an idea. Of course if this one works or should I say checks out I will have egg all over my face and many of you may be willing to take a trip down here to slap me once or twice. Have to talk my wife into driving around town in a 360 degree radius and talk to me on the CB. She HATES these things and despises talking on them but maybe taking her out for dinner will make her a bit more willing. I will keep you all updated. Tim   Vanillagorilla Intermediate Member Username: Vanillagorilla Post Number: 181 Registered: 4-2005 Posted on Monday, September 05, 2005 - 11:12 am:        Hey wish I could be there to help you out...I'd get the Hemi right? Wouldn't have to take me out for dinner either...got beer/pizza? Good luck and think simple..may not be as in depth as you think. Hank '905 CEF 559   Bigbob Senior Member Username: Bigbob Post Number: 2174 Registered: 12-2001 Posted on Monday, September 05, 2005 - 11:50 am:        Oh we wouldn't think of slapping you,just not talk to you,would drive you nuts because you would think you're still not getting out,some of us have a mean devious side,lol,when her cell phone can't get out for what ever reason she'll be glad that you had the fore thought to install it,espescially in an emergency.Bigbob   Sinker Junior Member Username: Sinker Post Number: 30 Registered: 8-2005 Posted on Monday, September 05, 2005 - 1:42 pm:        OK, last night I was thinking and thinking about this. What I did not consider nor did I check was the range in a different direction. Meaning I always was traveling the same route and would lose the base unit at about 2 1/2 to 3 miles out yet the base unit could still hear me in the mobile - (this still has me some what confused). Today I had my wife go out in the opposite direction and we had contact well over 5 miles with the base unit being loud and clear in the mobile but the mobile being audible but not super loud and clear on the base. At about 5 to 7 miles out the base unit was hitting the mobile unit with 7 S-Units and sounding loud and crystal clear. The mobile unit was coming in to the base unit at only about 2 S-Units but was still audible although not great. So know it seems like maybe the antenna of the base unit seems to have better ability to transmit in a certain direction than the other. It is no a directional antenna (A-99) but wonder if the roof has something to do with it. Anyway next is to get rid of the copper wire that is running from that coupler to the ground rod and will see if that helps. Have to wait for the storm to stop before I go out and grab any antenna though. Sorry I did not think about driving around in a circle from the base unit to see if one direction worked better than another. Although I still do not have this rectified yet I have some additional information to work with now. Seriously considering starting over from scratch with the new Antenna location and LMR-400. Thought I had fund a NIB Galaxy Saturn Turbo today but think it was miss marked as I would like to have one of those radios. I will keep you all updated on the progress here.   Yankee Advanced Member Username: Yankee Post Number: 868 Registered: 7-2003 Posted on Monday, September 05, 2005 - 2:27 pm:        You are saying coupler, if it's what I think it is, take it out of line while you're taking the extra ground wire off that is close to the base of your antenna. I believe that it is a lightning arrestor and goes on the other end of your coax in the house. Let me ask, what type of roof do you have? If metal, this could be part of your problem and there is nothing wrong with your station or antenna system. I have noticed you have your antenna mounted at what looks like the rear of your home. Is it possible to get your antenna mounted at one or the other end of your house away from any overhead wires? You very well could be getting an electronic reflection off your roof, making you antenna somewhat directional. another question I have thought of, is your antenna mounted close to your electric service entrance, or close to overhead wires? I'm running out of answers, but still thinking of what the problem might be. Carl CEF-357   Hotwire Advanced Member Username: Hotwire Post Number: 540 Registered: 1-2005 Posted on Monday, September 05, 2005 - 2:34 pm:        Sinker, I would say it has to be your coax or your antenna or both. Say your going for new LMR 400? Wow at a hundred feet thats gonna cost ya! Bet you would be happy with just regular mini 8. Thats what I would use and save money. What do I know I'm just a CBer since I was a child. I'm sure the amatuers here can prove me wrong and disect what I say. Really not so complicated as I am sure you have been totally confused by all this. good luck guy and 73   Bc910 Advanced Member Username: Bc910 Post Number: 610 Registered: 7-2004 Posted on Monday, September 05, 2005 - 3:17 pm:        Sounds to me as if maybe the mobile is deirectional, not the base BC   Vanillagorilla Intermediate Member Username: Vanillagorilla Post Number: 185 Registered: 4-2005 Posted on Monday, September 05, 2005 - 4:29 pm:        2 things: Hotwire...whata ya trying to say? Cause if it's what I think it is its too complex for me Sorry, just trying to disect and read into yer post. Sinker..I think all bases have been pretty much covered here and we've all enjoyed your starting this thread and letting are minds warm up a little. What I wanna know is...what does the winner get? Thinking one day/night stay in sunny Fla with all the beer and pizza you could eat. You'll find the problem..if there really IS a "problem". Your getting out and all thats important. Troubleshooting is all part of the fun! Cheers! Hankster CEF 559   Sinker Junior Member Username: Sinker Post Number: 32 Registered: 8-2005 Posted on Monday, September 05, 2005 - 4:54 pm:        Well I have found out that I have definitely done some things wrong. I now have taken off the, well guess it is a lightening arrestor I had called it a coupler. Anyway I had it screwed into the antenna and the coax into it plus on one of the side screws had 23' of copper running down to the ground rod. The RG8 is now straight to the antenna. No change in SWR but who knows if the meter is any good. It is an Aries A-SWR 460 and all you do is screw your coax into it and then a jumper to your radio. There is no set or adjust knobs or anything. Think what I am going to do is just slowly get all the parts to do the new set up, antenna in new location still need to decide on either a mast or tower (will depend on $$$ - need to see if I can find a used tower). Will take some pictures and make some drawing of the location with measurements and seek additional advice on the new antenna. Although the LMR-400 will be expensive everybody is telling me spend the big bucks on the Antenna and coax THEN the radio. I may not buy things in that order as if I come across a deal I will get it and have been looking for a Galaxy Saturn Turbo for a base unit. Believe I have figured out a method for using guide wires IF they do not all have to be the same length and perfect distance between. We will see. Took the mic apart as it was fading in and out and there was battery acid all over and the 9v battery had ballooned in size - weird looking. I wish I could give the winner something, probably could afford a Beer, Pizza and Fishing Trip if they could make it out here. Might just go over to Starface's place and shoot pool and talk on his radio.   Yankee Advanced Member Username: Yankee Post Number: 870 Registered: 7-2003 Posted on Monday, September 05, 2005 - 5:00 pm:        Yes, mobile installations are very directional. My personal mobile installation has the antenna, a K-40 Trucker mounted on the front right corner of the trunk lid and my best coverage is going across the left front fender, when I'm moving. Although if I go up on the hill I normally shoot skip from and park the car headed south, I do very well to the Northeast, locations such as New York, The New England States and Eastern Canada, strange how a mobile will act at different locations of the compass. Carl CEF-357   Hatchet Junior Member Username: Hatchet Post Number: 17 Registered: 7-2004 Posted on Monday, September 05, 2005 - 5:57 pm:        Not all mobile installations are directional. Mount the antenna in the middle of the vehicle and it wont be directional. You are talking better in one direction because your groundplane is better in that direction.   Bigbob Senior Member Username: Bigbob Post Number: 2179 Registered: 12-2001 Posted on Monday, September 05, 2005 - 6:35 pm:        If you have a metal roof raise the antenna so the base is no less than even with the peak then you will have an omni-directional,1/4 waves are more affected by ground plane metal than 1/2 waves are(antennas),but all antennas are affected by reflective metal in their radiation pattern.Bigbob   Road_warrior Advanced Member Username: Road_warrior Post Number: 813 Registered: 7-2004 Posted on Monday, September 05, 2005 - 7:38 pm:        Hi SINKER, Glad to hear you made alittle headway. By the way, when you get this new setup. You said you could go up 30 ft, is this to bottom or top of antenna??? Will you be using a tower or mast??? Thanks JIM/CEF 375 CENTRAL PA   Sinker Junior Member Username: Sinker Post Number: 33 Registered: 8-2005 Posted on Monday, September 05, 2005 - 8:00 pm:        it will be 25 to 30 feet to the bottom of the antenna - unless it is the Top One then it will be 25 to 30 feet of mast or tower (you get the idea). The shed is about 10' high so on that side the mast or tower would only be 15 to 20 feet above the sheds roof peak. I would prefer a tower but that may prove to be cost prohibitive unless I can find a used one or someone willing to let me have one if I disassemble and get it off their property.   Yankee Advanced Member Username: Yankee Post Number: 871 Registered: 7-2003 Posted on Monday, September 05, 2005 - 9:53 pm:        I'm very happy that we have found the problem, Sinker is not the only one who lost sleep over this one. I had to picture his installation in my head to solve the problem. Sinker, I'm in Oklahoma so you go ahead and enjoy the pizza and beer and I'll take a rain check. Hope to talk to you on the CEF nets one of these Sundays. I was glad to help you with the problem. Carl CEF-357   Yankee Advanced Member Username: Yankee Post Number: 872 Registered: 7-2003 Posted on Monday, September 05, 2005 - 10:01 pm:        Hatchet: I have my 2 meter 5/8 wave antenna on top of the car and I wack low hanging tree branches with it, therefore my CB antenna which costs a lot more had to go on the trunk lid. Carl CEF-357   Road_warrior Advanced Member Username: Road_warrior Post Number: 814 Registered: 7-2004 Posted on Monday, September 05, 2005 - 11:41 pm:        Sinker: going that high should work pretty good for you no matter what antenna you use. Good Luck on getting your new setup. Way to go Yankee! Good deal! JIM/CEF 375 CENTRAL PA   Kid_vicious Advanced Member Username: Kid_vicious Post Number: 571 Registered: 9-2004 Posted on Monday, September 05, 2005 - 11:49 pm:        sinker, congrats man, you're on the right track. I use lmr400 yeah, maybe a bit pricey to some, but if you do this for enough years, eventually you will want the best. (without taking out a small loan). it's worth every penny. also, you can get a 30' telescoping mast, ( three 10-foot sections that sleeve into eachother. sometimes called a "push-up pole" because you just push the sections up and lock them off) at Lowe's. most states carry them and they are less than $50.00 here in las vegas. i think this is the easiest, cheapest, and safest way to go for your install. matt   Bigbob Senior Member Username: Bigbob Post Number: 2185 Registered: 12-2001 Posted on Tuesday, September 06, 2005 - 6:13 am:        I missed something,what was the problem,a metal roof to close? or what.Bigbob   Road_warrior Advanced Member Username: Road_warrior Post Number: 815 Registered: 7-2004 Posted on Tuesday, September 06, 2005 - 9:06 am:        Kid, don't those push-up require guy wires??? Somewhere i thought i seen that Sinker could not run guy wires. Never had a push-pole up for any long period of time, so, i don't know. BIGBOB, from what i gather one or both of his antennas was acting directional. Maybe I'm still lost....LOL... Two sections of Tower and 5-10ft of solid mast on top and bracketed to shed would work good also... But, a home-made hinge plate would have to be used on tower base to drop tower doing storms. Kid vicious idea of push-up- pole would be cheaper and could be lowered doing storms also. You could also setup some sort of mast using the flagpole design at base to swing it down during storms. GOOD LUCK!!!! JIM/ CEF 375 CENTRAL PA   Yankee Advanced Member Username: Yankee Post Number: 873 Registered: 7-2003 Posted on Tuesday, September 06, 2005 - 9:11 am:        Well, it's like this. the lightning arrestor and the 23 foot ground wire where the problem and I'm thinking that the arrestor is faulty. I also have an idea he was radiating the ground wire, that was going to the arrestor at the base of the antenna. carl CEF-357   Sinker Junior Member Username: Sinker Post Number: 34 Registered: 8-2005 Posted on Tuesday, September 06, 2005 - 9:32 am:        Yankee - you are correct I looked through Copper and it was indeed a lightning arrestor that I had between my coax and antenna. The guy at the local AND ONLY shop told me to get it and screw it into the antenna then put my coax to it, then get some copper wire and run it down to a ground rod. Not only did he charge me 14 bucks for the lightning arrestor that is about 10 bucks more than at Copper he also told me the wrong way to do it. I have noticed their prices to be extremely high as well - guess because they are the only game in town. I can not give them any more of my money and refuse to take my radios there to even have them checked out. Need to find an expert trustworthy tech I can send my stuff to to have it worked on. I am going to sketch out my plan for the new system and if it is OK with the mods post it here for advice on if I am missing something or doing something wrong. One quick question though. Now that I took off that ground wire from the antenna how is it grounded??? What if lightening hits it (I mean I know the antenna will be toast but what about my house)??? How do I ground it correctly now? Went on-line to Lowe's but could not find that Push-Up-Pole and couldn't find one at my local store. They said if I could find it on-line they could get it for me. Tim CEF-634   Vanillagorilla Intermediate Member Username: Vanillagorilla Post Number: 188 Registered: 4-2005 Posted on Tuesday, September 06, 2005 - 1:51 pm:        Screw the coupler/arrester to the antenna feedpoint itself then coax to it. Thats where it's supposed to be. If you don't want to use the coupler then use a stainless hose clamp to hold the ground wire against the PL-259 where it is screwed to the antenna. Run that down the mast and solder it to a ground rod. It will help TVI issues and hopefully direct lightning to the earth instead of your radio. Hank '905   Yankee Advanced Member Username: Yankee Post Number: 874 Registered: 7-2003 Posted on Tuesday, September 06, 2005 - 3:00 pm:        You still have a ground wire going to your antenna mounts on your house, correct? If so then your antenna system is grounded. From what I understand eventhough I've never used one a lightning arrestor is used to protect your radio equipment and not the antenna. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong about the use of a lightning arrestor and please explain the correct use. If an A-99 antenna or any fiber glass antenna for that fact, gets hit by lightning. It's a done deal and will be in pieces all over your yard. Lightning is one of the worst acts of nature. Many of us have lost everything at our stations due to a lightning strike, and it only takes one strike. Carl CEF-357   Moderator1516 Moderator Username: Moderator1516 Post Number: 12 Registered: 8-2005 Posted on Tuesday, September 06, 2005 - 3:25 pm:        my antenna pole is drove into the ground and i have a ground wire at the base oif the pole connected to a water pipe i wonder if that is enough also unhook the coax when there is a storm in the area.recently the lighting kicked two breakers off at the box but didnt do any other damage moderator 1516 cef # 139 ham # 147 ki4kxl   Vanillagorilla Intermediate Member Username: Vanillagorilla Post Number: 190 Registered: 4-2005 Posted on Tuesday, September 06, 2005 - 5:09 pm:        I've been told by many (and many here may disagree) that you shouldn't worry about lightening as much as I DO! Just remember NOT to key up during a storm. I won't key if it's forcasted and I hear those tell-tale static bursts. It's like an invitation to get hit. If your antenna AND coax shield are grounded then the lightening "should" never make it to the shack. I have 10gauge solid core clamped to the coax at the PL-259 / antenna connection then runs directly to a 8ft ground spike below/next to the mast...soldered connection. The clamp that holds the A-99 to the mast also has the same size wire soldered to IT then run to the mast itself just beside it. At the bottom of the mast it too is grounded from the mast to yet another 8ft ground spike...yes..soldered. The mast is up 42' to feedpoint and gets 1:1.2 SWR across the board...I don't even use my MFJ tuner anymore to go freeband. Maybe I went overkill but I'll tell you this...I never did ground my radio stuff...can't get to a ground close enough and I've heard bad things about overly long (counterpoise) ground lines at the radio. I get minimal TVI only with the juice "ON" and only on certain broadcast TV channels only in my house. At that I'm told that you can barely hear me but the picture stays perfect. Only talking 100w max here but some have this problem barefoot. I could probably eliminate the problem by grounding the radio equip....someday. The plan is to grab a hammerdrill and put a ground spike in the basement floor below the "stuff". This can only help if lightening DOES make it into the house. Of course if my master plan works out I'll be putting a shack in the backyard by next spring anyway!..PROBLEM SOLVED! Sorry for the long post and pending thread hi-jack. Hank CEF~559   Sinker Junior Member Username: Sinker Post Number: 35 Registered: 8-2005 Posted on Tuesday, September 06, 2005 - 5:45 pm:        No I have no grounding wire now at all on the antenna. Some have said to ground the mast as it will conduct but if it hits the antenna won't it go through the coax and fry my radio and possibly everything else in the house??? I am very seriously considering having a dedicated outlet installed for just the radio equipment (really need to anyway as my office runs three computers, a window AC plus TV). My electrician is coming out to do a hookup for my generator anyway. I am thinking I will make this dedicated outlet also a dedicated ground all its own. Is this a good idea??? Will also use a ground rod to strap all equipment to that will be strapped just outside the office (about a 6' run) but still what about the antenna???   Kid_vicious Advanced Member Username: Kid_vicious Post Number: 575 Registered: 9-2004 Posted on Tuesday, September 06, 2005 - 6:55 pm:        hey sinker, if you weren't confused before; are you now? LOL matt   Tech291 Moderator Username: Tech291 Post Number: 227 Registered: 11-2004 Posted on Tuesday, September 06, 2005 - 7:22 pm:        Sinker, Seek the advice of the electrician when he shows up(on the grounding problem).He will know what meets local and NEC requirements. Hank, Before you drill through your basement slab,you might want to consider how dry the soil will be underneath.in most cases it would be too dry to be effectivly conductive.On your current grounding system,you should redo your soldered connections and use mechanical connections(ground clamps) instead.The tempertures generated in a lightning strike are high enough to vaporize a soldered connection.10 awg ground?About a year and a half ago,my tower took a direct strike and the only damage suffered was 2 gas-tube arrestors and an 8awg solid copper ground melted like a fuse about 10" above where it goes into the concrete base. tech291 cef#291 kc8zpj   Yankee Advanced Member Username: Yankee Post Number: 875 Registered: 7-2003 Posted on Tuesday, September 06, 2005 - 7:40 pm:        That 23 foot wire you bought will serve as a ground wire from your ground rod to your bottom mount on the house. Dennis Tech 291, I think might can tell you how to protect your system from a lightning strike. And how to connect the arrestors he is talking about. Carl CEF-357   Kid_vicious Advanced Member Username: Kid_vicious Post Number: 577 Registered: 9-2004 Posted on Tuesday, September 06, 2005 - 9:06 pm:        sinker, this must be a bit frustrating eh? first we tell you to get rid of that ground wire, and then we tell you that you need to ground your antenna at the base. HAVE NO FEAR!!! the advice in this thread is good; we just need to clarify a bit. yes, you should ground the base of your antenna to a ground rod pounded all the way into the ground. the problem lies with the actual wire that you are using to ground the antenna to the ground rod. when dealing with grounding as it relates to radio; there are two types of ground we are interested in. one is the DC ground. this is the ground that all your house wiring is attatched to. a DC ground simply means that your electrical equipment is connected to a common point at the earth level. any type or length of wire will make a DC ground connection. now for the confusion. the other type of ground, and the most important to a radio operator is the RF ground. this involves all kinds of confusing rules and phenomenon, but you can view it like this: RF (radio frequency) travels on the surface of the conductor. this is called "skin effect". also, when a conductor is round, it can more easily generate a magnetic field. (bad.) this is why flat copper strap is recommended for all ground connections. so you should run a length of 1 1/2" copper braid from the antenna base to your ground rod. use grounding clamps that you buy at the hardware store as different metals react funny when mated together. at your radio. run a piece of copper pipe along the back of the desk. attatch a piece of the copper braid to it and run it to an 8 foot ground rod that is less than 6 feet from the pipe. run a length of the braid from the antenna ground rod to the station ground rod and bury it about an inch or two down in the ground. if you do this, you will have a good ground. if you want to run the lightning arrestor, bolt it to the copper pipe at the back of the station. i am not the authority on this stuff. this is just stuff i remember from the research i've done. BTW, at lowe's: do a search for "channel master". that's the brand name. if you go to the actual store. they will be near the TV antennas, mounts, etc. the will be hard to find, but lot's of stores have them. if you use one, you will have to use a set of guy wires, but unless you are going the tower route, you need them. especially in florida. ask bruce or starface. matt   Road_warrior Advanced Member Username: Road_warrior Post Number: 816 Registered: 7-2004 Posted on Tuesday, September 06, 2005 - 10:01 pm:        I don't know about Sinker, but, i'm getting confused...LOL   Sinker Junior Member Username: Sinker Post Number: 38 Registered: 8-2005 Posted on Wednesday, September 07, 2005 - 3:29 am:        OK - Off to Lowe's today to look for more ground wire and then pull the antenna off the roof again to hook it up. By the time I get this all done I will deserve it to work. BTW - Channel Master did the trick on the search. But if it is 30' and I bury 5 feet of it into the ground with concrete then it is really only going to be 25' right? I can run the guy wires as long as they do not need to be perfectly spaced or all the same length. I like the idea of being able to lower when storms are approaching and it is cheaper than going out and getting 3 10' mast sections and 1 5' mast section which is what I was planning on unless I can find a tower somewhere. So at the 25' with only 15' of it above the shed I guess I am back to the Top One Antenna again. This push up pole will be anchored in concrete and against the side of the shed which is aluminum and has an aluminum roof meaning half of the antenna will be over the aluminum roof - is this going to cause problems (I expect so - of course)   Yankee Advanced Member Username: Yankee Post Number: 876 Registered: 7-2003 Posted on Wednesday, September 07, 2005 - 5:22 am:        Road Warrior, I'm not confused yet. I've put up several antenna systems and have done grounding and have also used the ground braid that Matt speaks of. As of late when I put up the PDL-ll I used the 3/16" UV treated guy rope. Over the years I've only lost one antenna, coax, radio and power supply to lightning. That system had two 8 foot ground rods on it, one at the base of the mast and the other used to ground the station equipment. Carl CEF-357   Chad Intermediate Member Username: Chad Post Number: 427 Registered: 11-2004 Posted on Wednesday, September 07, 2005 - 8:20 am:        I bought a channel master push up in hopes it would buy me some time while searching for a used tower. Well, it's still up For mounting I took a chunk of gas pipe about 5 feet long, cut 1 foot off and welded each section to either side of a 1' square chunk of plate steel. I pounded the 3' section into the ground and flushed the plate steel, I then shoved the base of the channel master over the 1' section. This was and still is very solid, it is then attached to my shed about 8' off the ground. you can find a section of gas pipe that will fit snugly inside the channel master. It has served me well, but has taken some wind beating as the Imax has a tad of a lean to it, I'm still searching for an old TV tower for the right price about, oh 40' tall. Chad   Road_warrior Advanced Member Username: Road_warrior Post Number: 817 Registered: 7-2004 Posted on Wednesday, September 07, 2005 - 9:45 am:        Yankee, i'm not taking any chances with lightning or do i use long runs of copper wires. I have 3 really heavy groundwires coming off the legs of my tower, each has there own ground-rod. I made it so i have easy access to remove my coax and place outside away from house during thunderstorms. Coax connector is waterproofed and a heavy wire runs from connector to another ground-rod. We do not really have to many thunderstorms around here, so, it's not much of a hassle for me. Everything,but, fridge gets unplugged in house. Lightning is very unpredictable and intensely hot/ Where my mother lives the house across the street has been hit 7 times. It has had many different owners. It's blew the whole side of the house apart 3 times. You could actually see into the living room and bedrooms. It's a miracle no ones been hurt yet. They have NO high trees or antennas like other in the same area have. Its weird. JIM/ CEF 375   Dave1 Junior Member Username: Dave1 Post Number: 13 Registered: 9-2005 Posted on Wednesday, September 07, 2005 - 10:13 am:        LOL they say lightning dont strike twice But they never did say a thing about 7 times Dave CEF 638 Maine   Hotwire Advanced Member Username: Hotwire Post Number: 548 Registered: 1-2005 Posted on Wednesday, September 07, 2005 - 10:16 am:        I have 3 ground rods at my pushup pole base each bolt connected with 1 foot of 4 gauge battery cable. Hopefully this will just help prevent my house burning down and anyone getting hurt. Lightning is so powerful I believe the only thing you can do is unhook your coax period from anything. Besides that I have been told that using a polyphaser is the next best solution. A polyphaser will save your radio and your life even if you are talking on the radio. Thats a lot of faith to put into a little electronic device but I believe its been proven. Kenny   Hotwire Advanced Member Username: Hotwire Post Number: 549 Registered: 1-2005 Posted on Wednesday, September 07, 2005 - 10:26 am:        Does anyone know? Polyphaser just a brand name of a really good lightning arrestor? Or is there a difference between just a lightning arrestor and a Polyphasor unit? Lon has a review about the polyphaser in subsciber previews if anyones interested.   Sinker Junior Member Username: Sinker Post Number: 39 Registered: 8-2005 Posted on Wednesday, September 07, 2005 - 10:59 am:        Chad Interesting stuff. I just got back from picking up the Channel Master push up pole. I got a 10' Antenna Mast as well that will fit inside to the smallest part of the Channel Master top pole - this way when I lower it the sections will fit over top of it allowing it to come all the way down. I will bury this 5' below ground and cement solid with 1' of the Channel Master below concrete as well after getting a bolt put through it and the Antenna Mast, will have to make some homemade long washers to keep it centered as it will not be a tight fit to allow the sections to come all the way down but should be easy enough to fabricate. I have two additional braces for it for mounting to the Shed and one additional 5' antenna mast section that can fit on the top of the Channel Master if needed for the Top One installation. This will keep me 30 feet above ground. Still need to find guy ROPE instead of wire and figure a way to tighten it up. This installation is meant to be temporary as well until I come across a 30 foot tower myself. Next will be the ground rods, wire and LMR-400 Coax. As for lightening - in the summer it is a daily occurrence here in the afternoons with routine winds 50 & 60mph plus higher justs and then of course the Hurricanes (at which point the Channel Master will be brought down to its 10 above ground setting shielded by the shed so should work well - I HOPE... Had no luck finding the Guy Rope or FLAT Stranded Copper Ground Wire today so will keep looking. Will get on line and order up the LMR400 coax, the Top One and Polyphaser - might just go ahead and order the Texas Ranger 696F and then maybe I can get a Copper Catalog... Tim Sinker CEF-634   Sinker Junior Member Username: Sinker Post Number: 40 Registered: 8-2005 Posted on Wednesday, September 07, 2005 - 11:03 am:        Hotwire I know Copper sells both and there is a big price difference. Lightening Arrestor Polyphaser   Tech808 Moderator Username: Tech808 Post Number: 7000 Registered: 8-2002 Posted on Wednesday, September 07, 2005 - 11:19 am:        Hotwire, No PolyPhaser is not just a name. CLICK on the LINK Below to learn more about the PolyPhaser Corporation and its products. PolyPhaser Corporation They are #1 in the Broadcast Industry for Protection of Radio Stations and Radio Equipment. Hope this helps, Lon Tech808 CEF808 N9OSN   Tech808 Moderator Username: Tech808 Post Number: 7001 Registered: 8-2002 Posted on Wednesday, September 07, 2005 - 11:39 am:        The Price Difference is WELL WORTH THE MONEY if you want to be protected. Copper Talk » Open Forum » Paul / Tech833 August 13th, 2005 we were hit by a lightning Strike the blew our Imax apart and the PolyPhasers SAVED over 10 grand of our Radios, Meters and Test Equipment that was all connected thru our MFJ 1700B Antenna Switch. Are they worth spending the Extra Money? OH YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! Lon Tech808 CEF808 N9OSN & Shirley 1st Sargant CEF164   Sinker Junior Member Username: Sinker Post Number: 41 Registered: 8-2005 Posted on Wednesday, September 07, 2005 - 12:20 pm:        Tech808 I just ordered one from Copper along with some other stuff. Would you mind giving us (well me) an instruction on the proper and CORRECT way to install this for optimum protection. May seem very basic to you but I want to make sure I do it right. Thank you.   Sinker Junior Member Username: Sinker Post Number: 42 Registered: 8-2005 Posted on Wednesday, September 07, 2005 - 12:30 pm:        This Topic really Helped RADIO EQUIPMENT & GROUNDING by Tech808   Yankee Advanced Member Username: Yankee Post Number: 879 Registered: 7-2003 Posted on Wednesday, September 07, 2005 - 2:07 pm:        Tech808, Lon is there any power or receive loss when using a Poly-Phaser? I've thought about getting one or would I need three with the PDL-ll and omni antennas? Then again I also have my 2 meter amateur radio antenna. Carl CEF-357   Sgt_rat New member Username: Sgt_rat Post Number: 2 Registered: 9-2005 Posted on Wednesday, September 07, 2005 - 2:21 pm:        Alot of great information here. I'm having the same problem with my setup. I have a Pat 12 antenna and a Pres. Madison base, and a Magnum Omegaforce mobile. Doesn't matter which radio is hooked up to base antenna, rx great, tx poor. Will try some of these fixes.   Tech808 Moderator Username: Tech808 Post Number: 7004 Registered: 8-2002 Posted on Wednesday, September 07, 2005 - 4:22 pm:        Yankee, -0- If you look at the Pictures I posted I use 3 PolyPhasers 1 for the Omni, 1 for the Horizontal Side and 1 for the Vertical Side of the Beams. I never leave my 2/6 Meter Antenna hooked up or I would have one on it also. Lon Tech808 CEF808 N9OSN   Kid_vicious Advanced Member Username: Kid_vicious Post Number: 579 Registered: 9-2004 Posted on Wednesday, September 07, 2005 - 4:41 pm:        sinker, you're not going to find the guy rope or the copper braid at the hardware store. you will have to go online. one place you can get both of them is ***************. find them online. they will have everything you need. one note of caution though; their prices can be on the high side of the retail scale. if you find a product on their site that you like, you would dop well to search around for a better price. as far as the guy rope and braid go though, you'll probably end up getting it from them. they are very reputable. if i were you i wouldnt spend any more time, money, or stress over your current Antron99 installation. it work; the swr is good; the neighbors dont complain; heck you've got 70% of CB'ers beat already! spend your money on things for the new install. matt   Road_warrior Advanced Member Username: Road_warrior Post Number: 820 Registered: 7-2004 Posted on Wednesday, September 07, 2005 - 9:00 pm:        I just talked to a friend tonight i haven't seen in awhile. He lives about 1/2 mile from me. In july lightning hit the telephone pole outside his house and blew his TV, phones, computers, ect. Nasty stuff! JIM/CEF 375   Crafter Senior Member Username: Crafter Post Number: 1074 Registered: 12-2002 Posted on Thursday, September 08, 2005 - 1:04 pm:        Ok I'll chime in Sinker humor me and next time you have your antenna down lean it against something not metal and try ONE coax and not the two pieces. I think its a coax problem not a radio or antenna problem. I had to replace mine here awhile back never really knew it went bad since it checked good. But I replaced it and wow what a difference. Now I read it should be replaced every ten years or so mine was at least 15 yrs old and has had 2k run through it more than a 1000 times guess it has to break down. As for as lightening protection the poly is top notch but only true way to protect it is to unconnect it during a storm. This make since?   Musky New member Username: Musky Post Number: 3 Registered: 8-2005 Posted on Thursday, September 08, 2005 - 3:50 pm:        If I had neighbors that prissy, I would move. Not merely just because of the antenna issue, but just do to the fact of them being uppity. I wouldn't want to live my life around snobs. Anyways, change your coax to LMR400 and you will see an improvement. I switched mine on my Moonrakers and all of my jumpers to LMR400UF and I receive everyone 1 S unit higher. My signal went up 1 S unit as well. Hopefully, the neighbors don't break out the torches and pitchforks when they see you changing coax!   Sinker Junior Member Username: Sinker Post Number: 45 Registered: 8-2005 Posted on Thursday, September 08, 2005 - 4:55 pm:        MUSKY - heheehe I hear ya. Just trying to be a good neighbor is all and can't afford to move. I figure in time it will not even be an issue as they tend to become just part of everything around so as long as I am not coming over their TV's Radios & baby monitors then all is good. Trying to figure out what type/size connectors for the LMR-400. Not sure of the cable diameter. Anyone know ????   Duck246 Member Username: Duck246 Post Number: 62 Registered: 8-2004 Posted on Thursday, September 08, 2005 - 5:28 pm:        A PL-259 will work. NO reducers.   Road_warrior Advanced Member Username: Road_warrior Post Number: 823 Registered: 7-2004 Posted on Thursday, September 08, 2005 - 8:47 pm:        Heck, $64 and something isn't bad for a polyphaser. I never looked at one before. I figured they were a few hundred dollars from the way others talked. But, even at that since they work its worth it.   Bigbob Senior Member Username: Bigbob Post Number: 2190 Registered: 12-2001 Posted on Thursday, September 08, 2005 - 9:09 pm:        Just in case,fiber glass antennas shatter from the extreme pressure generated when lightning super heats the air inside,i.e.they are hollow with a teeny tiny drain hole at bottom.Bigbob   Kb9ryi Junior Member Username: Kb9ryi Post Number: 21 Registered: 7-2002 Posted on Thursday, December 22, 2005 - 8:50 pm:        This has to be one of the most interestng threads I have read. Its great so see so many people all trying to help each other. Kind of restores ones faith in the kindness of people. For my $.02 worth, I had my antenna on 20ft of mast NOT grounded properly and was getting into my neighbors "Surround Sound" system for his TV. I did not bother the TV he just could hear me in the speakers. After trying many different things I went ahead and put up a tower. Now I have a 40ft tower (which I bought used from a local Ham who was putting up a bigger tip-over tower) with 11 ft. of 1.75 inch Schedule 40 high strength mast pipe with my Super Scanner antenna on top. I used LMR-400 cable down the tower and into the basement. The LMR-400 connects to a PolyPhaser mounted on a Copper plate. Then a 3" wide flat copper strap goes out through the wall to a 8ft ground rod just outside the basement wall. Then more LMR-400 from the PolyPhaser up through the floor to the radio equipment. As I am not able to do tower work anymore I had to hire a tower installation company to do the work. They used the same mounting set up they use for cell phone towers and comercial towers. I have to say it was worth the money to have every thing done right. I have great signal reports and have much less noise and static in my receive signals. Also another bonus is I dont come over the next door TV speakers any more. So I have to agree with many others, put up the best antenna, mast/tower, and coax cable you can aford. Even a stock basic radio will sound good with a good antenna installation. Then when you can get a "Big Radio" (what ever that is) you will sound even better. Good luck with you radio station improvements. Hope to hear you on the CEF net soon. 73 for now and God Bless, John CEF 507 KB9RYI Ham 71 Stargazer Wisconsin Unit 409

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