| Author |
Message |
    
Road_warrior
Senior Member
Username: Road_warrior
Post Number: 2029
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 12, 2006 - 4:17 pm: | 
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I have my buss-bar mounted behind radio.
Short run of #4 solid copper from buss-bar
to outside 8ft groundrod.
1" copper braided strap from radio to buss-bar.
1" copper braided strap from TVI filter to
buss-bar. TVI filter is mounted directly into
radio with double male connector.
No other equipment being used.
Ok, my question. Does a strap need run from
coax connector/double male connector or
microphone connector to buss-bar also or
not??????Thanks....RoadWarrior |
Wildrat
Senior Member
Username: Wildrat
Post Number: 1180
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 12, 2006 - 6:37 pm: |
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no! I asked that question also. I had even bought the special little connectors already. Then I asked the question and got the no answer. It's a good thing too, I would have had ground wires running every where.
WR
Moderator Note!
From:
Ask The Tech
» Installations
» PROPERLY GROUNDING YOUR STATION
Polyphaser - Lightning Arrestor » Review
Discussion of Polyphaser Review
Antenna Grounding
|
Tech808
Moderator
Username: Tech808
Post Number: 12504
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 12, 2006 - 7:49 pm: |
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Below is a very HELPFUL Guide to follow from Tech833 to help guide you step by step through the Installation of your Home/Base Station Antenna's and Equipment for Maximum Performance and Safety.
Lon
Tech808
CEF808
N9CEF
CVC#2 |
Road_warrior
Senior Member
Username: Road_warrior
Post Number: 2030
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 12, 2006 - 9:53 pm: |
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Ok, thanks you guys. I just wasn't sure. |
Wildrat
Senior Member
Username: Wildrat
Post Number: 1182
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 12, 2006 - 10:44 pm: |
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he's asking if the connectors on his coax at his radio and tvi filter need to have ground wires to the grounding buss. Least that's how I am reading it.
WR
Moderator Note!
His radios, tvi filters, coax , meters, coax switchs, power supply, grounding buss, "everything" should be grounded to a single point ground. |
Road_warrior
Senior Member
Username: Road_warrior
Post Number: 2031
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 12:33 am: |
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Ok, here's is how i have it.
My coax shield is grounded at base of tower.
Have a buss-bar. Have a strap from radio screw
to buss-bar. Strap from grounding screw on
TVI filter to buss-bar. ( Company recommended
it be grounded).
Wire from Buss-bar to outside ground-rod.
Is this ok????
OK????? |
Tech808
Moderator
Username: Tech808
Post Number: 12506
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 6:50 am: |
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From:
Ask The Tech » Installations » Setting Up The New Station Advice
Tech833
Moderator
Username: Tech833
Post Number: 1059
Registered: 8-2002
Posted on Thursday, September 15, 2005 - 1:34 pm:
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Hi Sinker.
If you are able to run coaxes from your antennas to your shack, then you can surely run a ground wire from each of them to your shack too.
What you want is for each antenna to have its own ground rod, and then for your station to have its own ground rod, and all equipment grounded to that common point. THEN, you want all the grounds tied together. Each and every piece of radio gear in your shack should have a ground wire attached to it and then to a common point (buss bar) behind the gear. Then, use a heavy copper wire to connect the buss bar to the station ground rod outside the shack.
The Polyphasers should be as close to the station ground rod as possible, and located right where your coaxes enter the house or shack.
Tech833
Member
Username: Tech833
Post Number: 69
Registered: 12-2001
Posted on Friday, September 16, 2005 - 10:59 am:
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I quote from my post above- "...you want all the grounds tied together."
I cannot be any more clear.
If someone has told you different, then they are wrong.
----------------
Hope this help's,
Lon
Tech808
CEF808
N9CEF
CVC#2 |
Wildrat
Senior Member
Username: Wildrat
Post Number: 1186
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 8:19 am: |
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Is your grounding system for your radios connected to your houses ground system?
Polyphaser has a article on single point grounding.You could also Google single point grounding also.
WR |
Airplane1
Advanced Member
Username: Airplane1
Post Number: 934
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 8:23 am: |
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One question Please, can the ground wire from buss in shack behind radio gear be bent at close to 90 degrees in a couple spots since it is only an rf ground or is it?
AP |
Tech833
Moderator
Username: Tech833
Post Number: 1546
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 9:33 am: |
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Airplane- Yes. |
Airplane1
Advanced Member
Username: Airplane1
Post Number: 938
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 11:34 am: |
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Thank you 833, It is the antenna lightning ground that needs to be straight as posible correct?
The ground from my bus needs two 90 degree bends to go through the floor at the outside wall in my radio room then bent to go horizontal out the block wall in basement and then 90 degrees to the ground rod so that will be fine.
AP |
Road_warrior
Senior Member
Username: Road_warrior
Post Number: 2032
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 1:32 pm: |
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Wildrat, i followed Tech 833 Installation
guide that's printed above.
I have an illness that makes me confused
at times, so, please bare with me...lol
My wife has MS and shes been real sick
and i haven't had much time to get on computer.
As for electrical ground hookup. I have
another job for my electrican, so, i'll
let him do that.
Thanks everyone for your help! |
Airplane1
Advanced Member
Username: Airplane1
Post Number: 941
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 6:00 pm: |
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Road Warrior,
I hope your wife feels better soon.
AP |
Hollowpoint445
Senior Member
Username: Hollowpoint445
Post Number: 1434
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, December 17, 2006 - 11:27 am: |
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Generally speaking, the straighter the conductor, the closer it will be to minimum inductance.
Inductance is to RF as resistance is to DC - it hinders the flow of current on the conductor. So the straighter the conductor, the better RF will flow on it.
Also, wider conductors have lower inductance, and solid conductors have less inductance than stranded ones. So a 1" wide solid copper ribbon will have less inductance than a 1" wide stranded copper strap, but a 2" wide solid copper ribbon will have less inductance than a 1" wide solid copper ribbon. |
Tech833
Moderator
Username: Tech833
Post Number: 1549
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Monday, December 18, 2006 - 11:18 am: |
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Some Copper forum members have asked me via email for some further clarification on RF grounds, safety grounds, and audio grounds.
Let me begin with Safety Grounds.
A safety ground is designed to keep equipment at ground potential so that people coming in contact with it do not get shocked. Have you ever connected your PL-259 to your radio and received a little zap when your arm brushed by the radio cabinet? That would not happen with adequate safety grounds on your coax shield and radio cabinet. Safety grounds are also used for lightning and EMP protection for your electronic equipment. If antennas are not involved, a simple chassis ground (like a 3-prong power cord) are usually sufficient for human safety. When lightning and EMP are a concern, then surge protection and other means of bleeding excess charge from the equipment connections (power and interconnects) to ground become necessary. A safety ground is made by simply connecting equipment cabinets and all exposed conductive materials to a ground buss which is also well grounded. You should never, never run a safety ground 'uphill'. A safety ground should be made via a straight connection from the buss, downward to the ground rod(s). Lightning will seek a means to ground through your equipment, or YOU rather than run 'uphill'. Each piece of equipment with a chassis (radios, meters, amps, etc.) need to have a ground connection from the cabinet to the ground buss. Use a metal screw on the cabinet that also connects to the metal cabinets to connect the ground wire. Use solid copper wire for equipment that does not move. For equipment that moves once in a while, use stranded copper wire. For equipment that moves a lot, use tightly woven copper braid. Connect all safety ground busses to copper clad ground rod(s). If you use more than one ground rod, make sure they are no closer to each other than they are long. For instance, if you use 8-foot rods, make sure they are no closer than 8 feet to each other. Bond all rods with large copper clad ground rod clamps and large diameter wire. Use Penetrox on all connections to eliminate oxidation and electrolysis between connections.
Now, we'll tackle RF Grounds.
RF grounds are necessary for anything using an antenna. The purpose of an RF ground is to keep RF off of equipment, which can happen if it has a safety ground or not. Where your RF grounds and safety grounds work together is in the application for lightning protection. With the exception of lightning and EMP protection, an RF ground can replace a safety ground, strictly from an RF safety standpoint. However, for maximum protection to humans, both ground types should be used and bonded together. Since RF travels over the surface of a conductor rather than through it, large diameter conductors work better than smaller ones (less resistance). The best RF ground material known to man that is readily available and affordable is copper strap. The surface area ('outer diameter') of copper strap is humungous compared to round wire conductors or copper tubing. An RF ground is a little more complicated to make than a safety ground. Sure, ground rods make fantastic safety grounds, but are barely adequate for RF grounds. In order to conduct RF to the Earth, horizontal bare wire radials buried close to the surface of the Earth are used. The radials are all connected to a common point, and that common point must be connected to your antenna and coax ground. For maximum safety, the RF common point must also be bonded to the buss bar serving as your safety ground. Is it acceptable to make some bends in the RF ground, but it is still best to keep the number of bends to a minimum. When bending copper strap to make 90 degree corners and to change a direction, fold the copper over itself and flatten with a hammer. Then solder the strap to itself where they overlap. Use silver solder whenever possible. Connect RF grounds to equipment via the safety buss as a minimum, or connect RF ground bonded strap directly to equipment if possible.
Audio Grounds are very different from Safety and RF grounds.
Since an audio ground is actually a signal path, they are very prone to what is called a 'ground loop'. A ground loop comes from having more than one path to ground, each with a different resistance (can be as small as a micro-ohm). The differential between the two will induce AC waveforms into the signal path. The best example of this is the sound you hear when your skin touches a microphone input jack on an amplifier. The path through your skin to ground has a different potential than the ground through the equipment. The more difference in resistance between the two paths, the 'louder' the hum you hear in the amp's speaker. |
Hollowpoint445
Senior Member
Username: Hollowpoint445
Post Number: 1436
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Monday, December 18, 2006 - 9:10 pm: |
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Great post. Thanks! |
Road_warrior
Senior Member
Username: Road_warrior
Post Number: 2034
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, December 23, 2006 - 12:34 am: |
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Thanks Tech833 and everyone!
Do these Rf ground Horz radials in the ground
need to be a certain length?
Need any certain amount?v |
Tech833
Moderator
Username: Tech833
Post Number: 1554
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, December 23, 2006 - 10:34 pm: |
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At least 9 feet long for CB band, but the longer, the better. The more of them, the better. |
Road_warrior
Senior Member
Username: Road_warrior
Post Number: 2038
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, December 23, 2006 - 11:32 pm: |
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Ok, i got my radials in the ground today.
Thanks... |
Road_warrior
Senior Member
Username: Road_warrior
Post Number: 2044
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, December 24, 2006 - 1:38 am: |
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Quick question on Top One.
Since the mast runs up inside this antenna
and mast is used by this antenna.
Also Supposing mast is all one solid section.
Where would a ground strap or ground wire
be hooked to. Mast itself or antenna u-bolts???
Just needed for future reference. |
Kid_vicious
Senior Member
Username: Kid_vicious
Post Number: 2351
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, December 24, 2006 - 9:57 pm: |
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if the mast is one solid piece, then you can just connect it to the bottom of the mast.
you can also run it from the U bolts if you want.
just make sure it is sucured to the mast all the way down to the ground.
and make sure the coax is also secured to the mast all the way down to the ground.
you need at least 8.5 feet of free and unfettered mast below the hoop for it to work right.
hope this helps,
matt |
852
Advanced Member
Username: 852
Post Number: 516
Registered: 3-2006
| | Posted on Friday, February 20, 2009 - 8:41 pm: |
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Ok for those of us less knowledgeable, how do i go about grounding the coax shield at the mast base? Also whats the best way to hook a ground wire onto a A-99?? Thanks
Tommy~852~CEF 750
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Tech808
Moderator
Username: Tech808
Post Number: 16613
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Friday, February 20, 2009 - 9:17 pm: |
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Below are some helpful articles on Properly Grounding your Radio Station.
Copper Talk
» Subscriber (Preview)
» Product Reviews » Polyphaser -
Lightning Arrestor
» Discussion of Polyphaser Review
Copper Talk
» Subscriber (Preview)
» Product Reviews » Polyphaser -
Lightning Arrestor » Review
Copper Talk
» Subscriber (Preview)
» Articles
» Protect your equipment
from Lightning
Copper Talk
» Subscriber (Preview)
» Articles
» Antenna Grounding
Hope this help's,
Lon
CEF#808~HAM#001/N9CEF
CVC#002
Tech808@copperelectronics.com
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852
Advanced Member
Username: 852
Post Number: 517
Registered: 3-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, February 21, 2009 - 12:23 pm: |
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Thanks Lon, some very informative info in there..
Tommy~852~CEF 750
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852
Advanced Member
Username: 852
Post Number: 518
Registered: 3-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, February 21, 2009 - 7:28 pm: |
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On a A-99 should i fasten the ground wire to the u-bolt where it fastens to the mast, that would make my ground over 20 feet in length. Or should i come to the bottom of the mast and attach my ground wire there?
Tommy~852~CEF 750
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Tech808
Moderator
Username: Tech808
Post Number: 17317
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Friday, December 18, 2009 - 6:51 pm: |
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Just bringing this topic back to the top so it may be of help to those of you who are lucky and Santa bring's you a  Antenna or Radio Equipment for Christmas. 
And for MORE HELP / INFORMATION do a search here in the Copper Forum for:
"Single Point Ground"
Hope this help's,
Lon~Tech808
N9CEF
CEF#808~CVC#002
Radio Enthusiast!
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