| Author |
Message |
    
Splbass17
Member
Username: Splbass17
Post Number: 70
Registered: 9-2005
| | Posted on Friday, April 20, 2007 - 3:48 pm: | 
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Ok I'm a few days away from ordering an S-9 from copper. I know that the S-9 was designed to run any 4-2sc2879 amp out there(according to Sam Lewis). Now was it designed to run that amp with the power all the way up, down, in the middle or what? I have read to just keep the stock mic so I'll include my 636 with my 2970dx when I get rid of it. |
Tech808
Moderator
Username: Tech808
Post Number: 13531
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Friday, April 20, 2007 - 5:53 pm: |
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Splbass17,
Follow the directions that come with the amplifer you purchase as the manufacturers of the amplifiers all have different input (Minimum and Maximum) recomendations.
Hope this help's,
Lon ~ Tech808 ~ N9CEF
CEF#808 ~ CEF HAM#33 ~ CVC#002
10-10 #61493 ~ 10-10 VP#2688
Tech808@copperelectronics.com
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Patzerozero
Senior Member
Username: Patzerozero
Post Number: 3624
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, April 20, 2007 - 6:01 pm: |
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i've posted on this forum umpteen gigazillion times how to set up an amp. if you do as i've posted, you should see out of that combination pretty close to what i said. as for stock mics....huh???? the 636 is a noise cancelling mic. effectively a stock mic. i'd use a stock mic before an unamplified noise cancelling mic.
is my 12 year old, well abused, stock-miked grant xl getting out? 
must be, Splbass decided against a galaxy 
<<<<<<<<<<<< |
Dale
Advanced Member
Username: Dale
Post Number: 784
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Friday, April 20, 2007 - 9:23 pm: |
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well i personally hate stock mics but each his own.my reccommendation try both
dale/a.k.a.hotrod
cef426
cvc#64
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Chronic
Junior Member
Username: Chronic
Post Number: 43
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Friday, April 20, 2007 - 9:42 pm: |
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My personal suggestion would be to use your stock mic if you are gonna be sitting in your house. If you are going mobile use only then your best bet is a 636L. If not there will be too much background noise. And I posted in your other thread about the amp choice. That radio is not going to properly drive a 4 pill box.
But with that said to answer your question it really won't matter from a swing point of view. If you run that top gun modulator on the radio will swing to the same output regardless of dead key. The only thing you'll be doing will be increasing the key of the box. And I seriously doubt that you'll take a S9 and key that box up very high by itself. The PEP output of the box will be nowhere near what it would be if you decided to drive it properly. Again, buy yourself a driver. Try it for yourself. And see that the "this radio will not work with a 2 pill box" is just BS and it'll work just fine.
Andre |
Patzerozero
Senior Member
Username: Patzerozero
Post Number: 3627
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, April 21, 2007 - 10:10 am: |
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i don't disagree that the S9 can work just fine with a 2 pill amp. i think mr lewis is basing his amp recommendations on texas star, & not a comp box. a ts dx500 will see full output from the S9, possibly even being able to be overdriven. a ts dx667 being hammered by an S9 won't last forever, but CAN work. while the dead key from the S9 needs to be lowered a bit, a 5 pill comp box handles 45 watts PEP from the S9 just fine. while 800 is better, 500 watts PEP vs 800 watts PEP ain't gonna do nothing except cost more money.
anyway, i think Splbass needs to start out slowly. |
Capt205
Intermediate Member
Username: Capt205
Post Number: 155
Registered: 5-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, April 22, 2007 - 5:20 pm: |
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I ran a 4x1446 box for a couple of years with my S9, and it worked just fine.
Now I have a 2x2290 box into 8x2879's behind the S9 and have no issues. So, with the radio set up right, you can run a 2 pill and not cook it.
With that said, get a TS DX500 and have fun. FWIW my 4 pill was the Palomar Elite 450HD, and a friend got it to use behind his S9, and it is still kicking butt. |
Splbass17
Member
Username: Splbass17
Post Number: 72
Registered: 9-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, April 22, 2007 - 9:55 pm: |
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I'm thinking an S-9 80 would drive a comp amp better the s-9 now. I really would prefer a comp amp over a "standard production" amp. Thanks for the heads up guys. I called 3 different amp manufacturers. They all said with their(4-2sc2879)I can Dead key at 10-15 watts and swing to 150 to get max results. The S-9 80 should do the trick. I also wont have to worry about pushing my alternator to hard because I dont think the S-9 80 will fully juice up the amp.
p.s. According to the info my 2970dx should be safe on a comp amp just not a texas star. I'm gonna test the amp with my 2970 until I get the Magnum so I'll let you guys know how it sounds. I really need a watt meter so I can make sure my dead key can be dropped to 10-15 watts first. |
Vanillagorilla
Advanced Member
Username: Vanillagorilla
Post Number: 999
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Monday, April 23, 2007 - 4:57 pm: |
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...more importantly...you NEED an EXTERNAL SWR/Watt meter to be sure your not going to cook an amplifier next!
Do NOT...EVER...put all your trust in the radios built in SWR meter! Consider the amp will now go between the radio and antenna....you will read two different SWR readings. One at the amp and one at the radio. I can fully understand you wanting to jump to the top of the modulation heap but as Pat stated...I think, with all due respect you DO need to slow it down a little. You've been doing this how long and already you want a comp box?
Learn the ropes and you'll learn a LOT and save money and grief in the end. Before you know it you'll be the one giving advice here.
That S9-80 is going to blow smoke and you will be heard for miles...NO DOUBT! BTW...That radio turned down with a comp box will stress any "Standard" alternator....trust me.
Not trying to knock you down or wash away any dreams here but a learning curve IS in order and its what I'd like to advise.
Wish I would have taken it slow to start...I'd have made a lot less problems for myself!
I've learned a lot here and one of the best things I've done is learned from others mistakes.
Be smart..be responsible (no matter how many watts) and read before you spend!
I'd say "I hope you'll like the S9" but I already KNOW you will..
Ask me? Drop the S9 in and buy an external SWR/Watt meter. Talk on it and learn what the radio is capable of FOR YOURSELF....spend time using the "search" here on copper and you'll know what you want, or at least be better prepared to make your own choices.
I learned that WAY before I "HAD TOO".
Best of luck and hope to hear you on the air soon!
Hank~CEF559/CEFHAM242
11mtr Northeast Net Control
Eastern Long Island NY
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Dale
Advanced Member
Username: Dale
Post Number: 798
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Monday, April 23, 2007 - 9:26 pm: |
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sorry spybass but after after reading these posts i thnk i agree. a comp box is
a nice piece of equiment but hooked to a stock
alt. not good idea.if it was me id get the regular s-9 and ts500.i honestly believe your
stock altenator will handle this fine.and this
setup ihmo i believe would be hard to beat without changing out stock alt.battery.
basically what im saying is if ya want to keep your charging syten stock i feel this will be your best bet.
dale/a.k.a.hotrod
cef426
cvc#64
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Splbass17
Member
Username: Splbass17
Post Number: 73
Registered: 9-2005
| | Posted on Monday, April 23, 2007 - 11:02 pm: |
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Vanilla Gorilla, I feel you man and I agree. But I have to say its hard to stay a "mud duck" when I see all these guys with big amps ranging from 400 watts to 50 KW, its looks like fun!! By the way have you seen that guy with the full sized van that does 50 KW, how great it that!!!
I will definitly get an swr/power meter before I buy anything else.
P.S. Oh yea one more thing, don't get me wrong man I'm not a dishonest person. When I get rid of my radio I'm gonna give the whole story what happened to me so the person who buys the radio will know what the story is. Although I havent had a problem with it since I posted so I may just be lucky.
Even though I'm stubbern and I dont wanna believe you guys, mainly because I want a comp. box and dont wanna hear the truth haha. I will take the advise and I do appriciate it. The Texas Star will just have to do, I'm sure they are great amps but I was hoping for a high drive beast.
Plus were moving to Tennesse next month for school so I have to put some cash aside for the amp, shhhh my girlfriend will kill me! Hopefully I'll be posting some pics real soon of my new toy!!! Thanks again for all the advise guys, I would be lost without it |
Splbass17
Member
Username: Splbass17
Post Number: 74
Registered: 9-2005
| | Posted on Monday, April 23, 2007 - 11:30 pm: |
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Almost forgot, I had a question. Isn't this how to figure out AMP draw?
Divide the RMS power rating of the amplifier (let's say 500 watts) by the amount of voltage your car's electrical system will produce — RMS/Voltage = Current Draw (The average automotive electrical system will produce about 13.8 volts and 60 amperes of current with the motor running). So, 500 watts divided by 13.8 volts equals 36.2 amperes — so a 500 watt(rms) amp will require about 36 amperes of current draw from your car's electrical system to achieve optimum performance.
If my formula is correct then an 4 pill that does 400 rms/800 pep will require only 28.9 amps ! I know this is way to low to be true but I did the math so whats the deal ? |
Vanillagorilla
Senior Member
Username: Vanillagorilla
Post Number: 1000
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 24, 2007 - 3:39 pm: |
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Can't help you with the math there Kevin but I can tell you that in the real world (mathmatics aside ) an "all out" comp 400RMS/800PEP amp IS going to want to draw more than that...closer to 80A.
The DX500 should draw less than 60A or so and NOBODY will ever know the difference between 400+ PEP and 800PEP....It'll show around an "S" unit more if that.
The Texas Star will just have to do? In my opinion it could be the last amp you'll ever really need. MUCH more than enough when the band is open and WELL more than enough to get around town many miles!
I agree with Dale..the 40w S9 and a DX500 would be a hot setup itself for half the price of your original plan...all that money saved and you'll only be suffering ONE S unit in your buddys radios!
BTW...glad I made my point without you misreading in my last post 
There's a certain Indiana DX'er out there that uses "close" (substitute the Magnum for a Connex)to that very setup with a noise cancelling mic and a 10k antenna that rings my bells 5X9 every time there is an opening.
Hank~CEF559/CEFHAM242
11mtr Northeast Net Control
Eastern Long Island NY
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Patzerozero
Senior Member
Username: Patzerozero
Post Number: 3634
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 24, 2007 - 4:44 pm: |
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a ts dx500 is not 500 watts rms. rms watts with no audio from a dx500 can reach 300 before self destruction begins, though safely should be run at 100-150. again, with no audio inserted, the dx500 can draw from 25-35 amperes, based on input wattage, and many other factors including wiring and antenna & feedline efficiency. when fully modulated, rms may SHOW 300+ watt peaks, or 400-500+ watt PEP, and draw from 50-60 amperes. a vehicle with even an 80 amp alternator, running at highway speed, engine rpm in the 2k range, and any combination of headlights and/or wipers and/or heater/AC running WILL show a voltage drop as well as an ammeter going crazy. while multiple batteries will extend the time before a voltage drop shows, the alternator is working overtime to refill the capacity of MULTIPLE batteries, not just the continuous work to refill one. don't forget to add nearly 10 more amperes for an S9 run hard.
a competition 4/5 transistor box will draw the same amps rms with no audio, but fully modulated can approach 100 amps. that is at 13.8 volts. don't forget to watch manufacturer claims as many use 14/14.4/15 volts as a reference point when claiming output. a 4/5 transistor comp box at 13.8 volts may show 800 watts PEP, and at 15 volts may show 1kw. the people listening to you will NEVER EVER hear the difference, and the only thing you will get is a very HOT amplifier, probably in need of repair sooner, rather then later. |
Splbass17
Member
Username: Splbass17
Post Number: 75
Registered: 9-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 24, 2007 - 10:48 pm: |
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Awesome thanks Gorilla and Pat, I like what I'm hearing. I'm looking forward to the Texas Star now after all. Hopefully when I graduate I can get myself a nice big H2 Hummer with a big old alternator and run an 8 pill just to say I have one haha. |
Kid_vicious
Senior Member
Username: Kid_vicious
Post Number: 2509
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 - 11:44 pm: |
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remember this spl,
you need to do the reading, otherwise you'll have nothing to talk about when you talk to others on your awesome radio equipment.
dont get too caught up in the "hardware" side of this hobby, or you will get burnt out FAST!
every single one of us on this forum has a severe hardware addiction; it kinda goes with the territory in this hobby, but, we must all remember that the REAL fun comes from talking to others on this cool hardware.
dont get discouraged if listening to the CB radio seems like you're in a ghostown sometimes. (ok, most of the time)
by this time next year there will be stations coming through your radio from all over the country, on almost every channel.
THAT's when the real fun begins!
and it wont matter if you are using 20 watts or 2,000 watts, you WILL get heard, and you WILL make contacts.
get a decent and reliable setup now, and spend the next year using every bit of it, and learning about why it works the way it does.
hang in there, the fun is coming, i promise.LOL
matt
anyone wanting a "clean signal", just look to the left and build one of these!!!
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Splbass17
Member
Username: Splbass17
Post Number: 80
Registered: 9-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 01, 2007 - 11:30 pm: |
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Ok heres my update:
I got a 165 AMP alternator
Yellow Top Battery
I'm roof mounting my Wilson 5000 this weekend
I'm keeping my 2970dx for now becuase the problems went away and the radio is working great
Now its either a Comp box made 6 pill or texas star sweet 16 (8 pill). What do you suggest??
p.s. I told you guys I cant stay away from amps haha |
Patzerozero
Senior Member
Username: Patzerozero
Post Number: 3662
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 02, 2007 - 10:38 am: |
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a comp box 6 pill will probably do the same watts, if not more, then the ts dx1600. and, probably pull more amps too. remember, it is made for AM, & while it will work on SSB, it should be modded(biased & delay added) for SSB. |
Splbass17
Member
Username: Splbass17
Post Number: 81
Registered: 9-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 02, 2007 - 8:10 pm: |
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Nice, I was leaning towards a comp box as well. Thanks for the input man. yea i'll have it setup for the side band action too.
I'll post my new set-up when its all finished and pretty, cross your fingers i do it right and my truck doesnt blow up haha |
Dale
Advanced Member
Username: Dale
Post Number: 824
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 02, 2007 - 9:28 pm: |
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definately some good upgrades there.your 2970
would drive that sweet 16 the best.cause it actually needs 100 watt output to reach full output.your 2970 would also drive a comp box very well also but imho i think it would draw more amps.and like pat said there built with am in mind they can be modded but with the t.s. its
already to go.plug and play
dale/a.k.a.hotrod
cef426
cvc#64
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Splbass17
Member
Username: Splbass17
Post Number: 83
Registered: 9-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2007 - 11:41 am: |
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Yea its definitly something to consider Dale. But if I turn off my comp box off to talk SBB I'll still have 150 pep from my radio alone and that should be good enough right? Plus SSB, for me, is a pain to tune people in I only get them close enough for them to sound like robots haha. I guess I need practice but tunning SSB in while driving is even harder so I might just save SSB for my future base station. |
Dale
Advanced Member
Username: Dale
Post Number: 829
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2007 - 8:43 pm: |
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yea your right you could just turn off amp and still have 150 out of radio sure.and talk on ssb,
however id much rather have around 800-1kw
especially if im already setup for it.to me i guess its a waste not to use on ssb.150 watts will do in most cases but the t.s.1600 would/
should double your distance.ssb will get easier
just go slowly with clarifer starting at 12oclock
1 direction will make them sound high other will make them sound deeper.think of it like adjusting a equilzer on a stero for best sound
dale/a.k.a.hotrod
cef426
cvc#64
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Splbass17
Member
Username: Splbass17
Post Number: 84
Registered: 9-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2007 - 10:12 pm: |
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Its funny because they either always sound "high" or "deep" no matter where the position of the clarifier knob. I also try changing the 6th digit on my freq. counter sometimes and that gets them sounding alot better, but should I really have to do that? I mean if thats the case, whats the point of having USB/LSB options on the knob if you have manually switch freqs ?
Is it possible who ever modded my radio before I got it threw the SSB freqs off a bit ? |
Tech808
Moderator
Username: Tech808
Post Number: 13606
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2007 - 11:38 pm: |
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In a perfect world with everyones radio set up correctly then no you would not need to change the 6th or 7th digit.
But you will find that you will need to adjust to the person you are talking with on SSB most times as their radio may not be set the same as yours.
That is just standard operating procedure for SSB use on most CB/Export Radios as all are manufactured to different specifications and use different components by the different manufacturers.
And yes it is possible that the person who had the radio before you either mis-adjusted it themselves with non essential modifications or had someone who did not have the proper equipment align it correctly after modifications or peaking and tweaking it.
But then again your radio may be Dead On Frequency and the person you are talking with could be off frequency.
Lon ~ Tech808 ~ N9CEF
CEF#808 ~ CEF HAM#33 ~ CVC#002
10-10 International #61493 ~ 10-10 VP#2688
Tech808@copperelectronics.com
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Penrider
Intermediate Member
Username: Penrider
Post Number: 101
Registered: 1-2007
| | Posted on Friday, May 04, 2007 - 12:06 am: |
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you'll very rarely hear perfect audio quality on SSB, BUT using a combination of the VFO and Clarifier on that 2970(one of the best ssb rigs out there, by the way...it's my only running mobile) will bring in weak/unclear signals that you could Never do on AM...as long as you can hear the person and understand their message it's fine...it may seem complicated for a while, but you'll get the hang of it...some ssb rigs don't even have a Clarifier, so having a Coarse Tune(vfo) and Fine Tune(clarifier) in the same radio is nothing but a Huge Plus!...by the way, if you can't seem to bring in a clear signal using the vfo and clarifier...try switching between am/usb/lsb...they may be bleeding over all three
Sean
CEF867
CVC81
"Keep smiling, it makes people wonder what you're up to!!"
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Splbass17
Member
Username: Splbass17
Post Number: 85
Registered: 9-2005
| | Posted on Friday, May 04, 2007 - 7:43 pm: |
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right on, thanks guys! |
Dale
Advanced Member
Username: Dale
Post Number: 834
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Friday, May 04, 2007 - 8:26 pm: |
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have ya ever met the people ya talk to on sbb?
or atleast talked to them on am.cause some people have deeper voices than others and some are softer.same with power mics some have a nice deep tone others are really high pitched and undesireable on ssb at best
dale/a.k.a.hotrod
cef426
cvc#64
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Splbass17
Member
Username: Splbass17
Post Number: 87
Registered: 9-2005
| | Posted on Monday, May 07, 2007 - 10:10 am: |
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No I havent really met anyone I talk to on the CB. Well I did once, but I didnt want to haha When I was 14-15 I had a CB walkie talkie and a some big blue (cheap) radio shack base antenna and had my dad to help my put it on the roof. There were some locals that used to mess with me because I was a kid and probably annoying. So we went back and forth until one day they put a jammer in my front yard and knocked to my door. That was enough to make me leave them alone! |
Dale
Advanced Member
Username: Dale
Post Number: 851
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Monday, May 07, 2007 - 8:57 pm: |
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lol,ok well if ya know what they sound like in person its easier to tune them in on ssb cause
youll know the tone of thier voice
dale/a.k.a.hotrod
cef426
cvc#64
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Drgrant
New member
Username: Drgrant
Post Number: 2
Registered: 6-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, June 07, 2007 - 12:43 pm: |
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Tuning people in on SSB is an art... after you've
been doing it long enough it becomes second
nature. And yes, with an RCI or a
HR 2510/2600/Lincoln having to add a .1 or .2
on the end is pretty normal. Use the last digit
for gross adjustment and then fiddle with the
clarifier. What you want to do is get rid of
what I call the "oscillation" on someone's
voice... basically when it is tuned properly the
person will sound "normal" and "smooth".
Also remember that every radio out there tends
to have a warm up cycle... so if you just turned
the radio on, expect it to drift a bit until it
gets up to temperature. (say, 10 minutes or
so... longer if it is really cold in your vehicle)
On some of the DX freqs it is normal to
find guys all over the dial, it isn't your
radio that is broken, but there are a lot of
people out there that don't know where their
radio is in terms of alignment. You might
find it useful to find a friend who has a properly
aligned HF rig that can tune you in to see where
your 2970 sits once it warms up, and get you
zeroed in. Knowing where to set your radio
up when sitting on a channel can help because it
will reduce/eliminate the amount of tuning some
people have to do.
-Mike |
