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Fusebreaker
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Username: Fusebreaker

Post Number: 60
Registered: 3-2004
Posted on Sunday, July 24, 2005 - 7:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Is there a way to get good swing to make meters bounce that are hearing you with out being distorted? I would like to be able to get behind a truck and hollar at him and Swing his s-meter away but i dont want to sound distorted.I hate when someone is talking to me and i cant understand them and they are down the street and i can hear a guy 10 miles a way with no problem.I mostly use SSB but when mobile i run channel 19 on AM.
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Therealporkchop
Intermediate Member
Username: Therealporkchop

Post Number: 258
Registered: 11-2002


Posted on Sunday, July 24, 2005 - 11:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hmm..good question. I'd think that if you just tuned the radio correctly you'd achieve this. You could run an amp and just turn it on and off when needed. I guess you could super mod it and just turn down the mic gain when you're close on your buddies?

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Fusebreaker
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Username: Fusebreaker

Post Number: 61
Registered: 3-2004
Posted on Monday, July 25, 2005 - 2:36 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thats what i was wondering do a swing mod set carrier to about 1 or 2 watts then adjust the modulation so it does not sound distorted.If i could swing to 10 watts from a 1 watt carrier and not be distorted.so if you dont over feed the modulation circut then it should swing and still be clear right?Will this give more swing then a stock radio would or is this one of those things that are not possible.If i run a 100 watt amp and key it so it deadkeys 10 watts and swings to about 80 would this give me some ego boosting swing with no distortin? like 0.5 watt carrier in and 4 watts swing from the radio.
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Hollowpoint445
Advanced Member
Username: Hollowpoint445

Post Number: 585
Registered: 6-2004
Posted on Monday, July 25, 2005 - 8:23 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If you want a swinging signal use SSB. If you want AM then use standard full carrier AM. Making the carrier swing will only make it sound worse. AM isn't supposed to have a variable carrier. The whole point of a big carrier is to make the signal easy to receive. By varying the carrier strength you make it more difficult to receive the weaker parts of the signal.
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Patzerozero
Senior Member
Username: Patzerozero

Post Number: 1090
Registered: 7-2004


Posted on Monday, July 25, 2005 - 4:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

'would like to be able to get behind a truck and hollar at him and Swing his s-meter away but i dont want to sound distorted.'-ain't gonna happen because when you're behind him PINNING his meter, there's no room for swing...
i can turn my grant xl down to LESS then 1 watt carrier, key up, it's SO LOW that my davemade WILL NOT KEY til i talk. then i get NO CARRIER & 800+ watts swing from my davemade. you know how that sounds? GARBAGEGARBAGEGARBAGEGARBAGEGARBAGE! the preference would be to have MORE CARRIER & LESS SWING! rather then 4 watts carrier & 16 watts swing, shoot for 8 watts carrier & 15 watts swing...SWING IS KING, BUT DEAD KEY RULES!
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Therealporkchop
Intermediate Member
Username: Therealporkchop

Post Number: 264
Registered: 11-2002


Posted on Wednesday, July 27, 2005 - 2:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Once you install the magic unicorn swing mod, there won't be any way to adjust the modulation. Atleast there isn't on a Galaxy.

I've learned the hard way...leave the radio alone or buy a bigger-better radio.

Set the radio up the right way. Use a scope and a good wattmeter. Then get yourself the amp you want. Find out from the people who make the amp what it takes to drive it and how much deadkey it will handle. Then adjust your radio to that, I.E. deadkey.

I think that it will sound the best this way. It's good to be king....
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Bigbob
Senior Member
Username: Bigbob

Post Number: 2084
Registered: 12-2001
Posted on Wednesday, July 27, 2005 - 8:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Now I know somebody in here said he jumpered out his mike gain control so it was full on,and connected the pot between the base and input of the amc shunt switch,but am not sure how it worked,lost my internet for a month and lost track of him.Bigbob
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Therealporkchop
Intermediate Member
Username: Therealporkchop

Post Number: 267
Registered: 11-2002


Posted on Thursday, July 28, 2005 - 1:05 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The best mod I can think of....hmmmm....

Let's see here....know it's here somewhere....

Hold on, I think I might..no not it....wait....

Ah yes...the best mod to do for any radio...

MAGNUM S9

Pat is the devil and he made me do it...
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Patzerozero
Senior Member
Username: Patzerozero

Post Number: 1105
Registered: 7-2004


Posted on Friday, July 29, 2005 - 4:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)







what was that i said? oh yeah, NO GALAXY RADIOS ALLOWED HERE!!!

and while we're at it, SWING IS KING...BUT DEAD KEY RULES!!! & when i use my S9, it is with the power turned UP UP UP to 12 watts dead key with 40+ swing. sounds BETTER YET when done that way.
and amps should be set up by turning radio key down LOW, then adjusting UPWARDS til you reach rated amp carrier power of manufacturer(for customs) or transistor compliment(for commercially made amps). 1-2-3-4-5 watts input is NOT neccessarily the correct dead key, for even 2 identical amps. make sure your swing input is within either of the ratings, then LET IT FLY! at that point, IT'S SET UP RIGHT! & if it sounds crappy, THERE'S TOO MUCH MODULATION/AUDIO(read as OVERMODULATION)
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Vanillagorilla
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Username: Vanillagorilla

Post Number: 98
Registered: 4-2005


Posted on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 6:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


WHOA WHOA WHOA!!! Wait a minute here PAT!
Ok let me learn something here please...
Lets start with "Dead key rules". I too have the option of less than a watt DK on my Grant then swing it to 8-10. I've been told as I tune.."Thats it!" Right there! Stop tuning! Loud and proud....at the 1wDK swing to 9. I'm told the 5w DK swing to the same 9 sounds "OK" but less modulated? As my friend 15-20mi away adjusts his Emperor he too sounds better with his 2w DK swinging to 20 than he does at DK 10? His signal of course is stronger with the higher DK but sure sounds louder with the lower dK.
As for the Amp thing you talked about...your saying there are no hard rules here? Thats what I want to hear...I think. I know your a "HotRod" :-) so I'll take this into consideration and lean your way as I've been called "redneck" more than once :-):-).
EX: I've got an older Polomar 225 AB1 mobile amp (2 "455's)with Lo/Med/Hi. in the base running off a 25amp supply.
It's been said before "no more than 4w input".
With this in mind I run it with the Grant as explained above and see a 50w key swing to 120 TOPS. Obviously more on SSB. Whilst once having the Pluto (sorry :-)) in the base I forgot to turn down the RF power before pushing the big red button and sent 10wDk into the 225 and swang that puppy to a breathed on 200w+. It was only for a moment (ok a little more)then I backed it down to the lowest power to save the amp from damage. "IF" I read what you said right then I should start with the RF power low and AAAAAHHHHDDIO into the mic as I turn up the radios power till I see the 225 (or a little less) from the linear? Tell me this is true? :-) Amp hardly gets warm and if it does the lil 4" fan cools it right quick.
I've heard you....I don't doubt your input...shoot it too me straight!

Hank '905
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Patzerozero
Senior Member
Username: Patzerozero

Post Number: 1156
Registered: 7-2004


Posted on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 6:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

this is an EXTREMELY basic description of what's going on-
100 watts of DEAD KEY will get past 200 watts of SWING-assuming no fancy compression/processed audio. because that 200 watt swing has high & low peaks, maybe from 50-200 watts when unaided. & the majority of the power is going to be LOWER, rather then higher. whereas the 100 watt DEAD KEY, assuming that is what is being sought out, is being FORCED to have all that output as power 'full on', the majority of the time, & may just have another 50 watts of swing.
back to your XL, hank. is it SOUNDING less modulated, or is it SHOWING less swing? does it sound 'compressed'-but not good as in the topgun radios, but rather 'clipped' from too much in the way of audio? with some work, the XL can be made to sound pretty good with 5 watts or so dead key & 15 swing, as opposed to the 'normal' 2-3 key & 12-? swing. the same with the emporer or any other radio for that matter.
what it comes down to is-are you using the radio barefoot or with an amp???
doesn't matter whether it's a high $$$ custom competition amp or the $30 KLV. the tranisitors in the amp will self destruct at a certain amount of input, both RMS & PEP. due to tolerances, the same transistor type in 2 different amps may fry at different inputs. that's why, if it's rated at 4 watts input, DON'T push your luck! it may take 6 watts once, for a week or forever. but the next 1 may DIE the 1st time it's driven with 4-1/2 watts. that palomar 225 w/ 2-455's, SHOULD do EXACTLY what it's showing with your XL! you need to know transistor RATINGS-not what amp claims! 225 is a very OVERLY generous rating by the manufacturer. the 455's are rated at 60 watts! 120 for 2 of them is the SAFE LIMIT. if you're not afraid of smoke & fire & willing to toss it if it burns, turn the XL up a bit. it may work once or twice-but no guarantees! want an amp that does it's rated 'dead key' with MORE swing then 'normal'? gotta go custom. fans are ALWAYS good! if you wanna keep that palomar, though-leave it where it is!
mrf 455=60 watts
mrf454=80 watts
2sc2290=80 watts
2sc2879=120 watts
sd1446=90 watts
these are PEP/swing ratings, dead key is approx 1/4. these are #'s to base a commercially made amp on. customs can differ-particularly swing do to the way they are built.
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Therealporkchop
Intermediate Member
Username: Therealporkchop

Post Number: 295
Registered: 11-2002


Posted on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 12:29 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I too have the option of less than a watt DK on my Grant then swing it to 8-10. I've been told as I tune.."Thats it!" Right there! Stop tuning! Loud and proud....at the 1wDK swing to 9. I'm told the 5w DK swing to the same 9 sounds "OK" but less modulated?

I don't know about your situation, but I think I can explain or atleast tell why this happens on Galaxy radios.

If you do the swing mod in the r238 slot, then you shouldn't have this problem. However, if you do the swing mod on the solder side of the board, anything over about 3, maybe 4 watts of key and you'll have a radio that won't modulate like it should, nowhere close to 100%. Atleast this has been my experience with that mod on that side of the board. It's clear and easy to see on a scope...

Pat is the S9 devil and I'm his minnie-me...

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Vanillagorilla
Member
Username: Vanillagorilla

Post Number: 99
Registered: 4-2005


Posted on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 8:13 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Thankyou both for the input...hope I've added to this thread and not totally hi-jacked it!
Pat...'spose I misunderstood your original thoughts. Good to know I'm driving that amp safely and its where it should be. I'm not much of a risk taker with my stuff but do like to be sure I'm taking advantage of all my options :-)
"IF" I were to blow up those 455's could I simply replace them with the 454's then? ...safely?
Once again thanks to all for the info and input...learning fast thanks to this forum :-)

Hank '905
CEF559
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Patzerozero
Senior Member
Username: Patzerozero

Post Number: 1159
Registered: 7-2004


Posted on Sunday, August 07, 2005 - 4:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

it can be done, but it's not that easy. 'matching' circuitry needs to be addressed, & each case is different, sometimes no change works, sometimes not. replacing with a matched set of the same transistors rarely requires any changes.
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Fusebreaker
Member
Username: Fusebreaker

Post Number: 83
Registered: 3-2004
Posted on Thursday, August 18, 2005 - 10:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What about this NPC mod i have seen for the cobra 148 radios does this work or is it another truckstop conartist who invented it?
Can you adjust the dk to 7 watts swing to 14 watts with this mod and not blow the radio or sound bad with ur modulation?
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Hollowpoint445
Advanced Member
Username: Hollowpoint445

Post Number: 680
Registered: 6-2004
Posted on Friday, August 19, 2005 - 12:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

NPC stands for Negative Peak Compression and isn't a swing mod. It's SUPPOSED to be a modification to increase the average modulation level by controlling the negative modulation peaks.

Years and years ago amateurs used similar modifications with their tube AM gear as a way to limit modulation and prevent splatter. This was long before modulation limiters were commonly built into radios.

It works fine with tubes, but you're better off just using the modulation limiter already designed and built into your solid state CB radio.

If you want to sound louder use a compression microphone or speech processor in conjunction with a properly adjusted modulation limiter.
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Fusebreaker
Member
Username: Fusebreaker

Post Number: 84
Registered: 3-2004
Posted on Friday, August 19, 2005 - 1:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ok i see now i thought it was to make your radio swing better wit no distortion.
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Patzerozero
Senior Member
Username: Patzerozero

Post Number: 1254
Registered: 7-2004


Posted on Friday, August 19, 2005 - 5:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

my grant XL appears to work fine with the npc-rc mod...

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