| Author |
Message |
    
392
Member
Username: 392
Post Number: 88
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Friday, December 02, 2011 - 10:38 pm: | 
|
OK I KNOW there is experience here in this one. I want to get back on the air with 6 and 2, would like to in 10 and 11 also. I have a HOA and of course they hate antennas. I really NEED and would appreciate advice on discrete antennas. Do inside the attic antennas work for 6 or 2? Any help on this is appreciated. My ICOM 910 is collecting dust here!!
thanks, 392, CEF0213 |
Dale
Senior Member
Username: Dale
Post Number: 1790
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, December 03, 2011 - 9:23 am: |
|
my best recomedation is to put all your equiment
in your mobile .then buy the best antenna for
each band .and as much power as you can LEGALLY
use on 2,6 and 10 meters.i know talking outta
the mobile is a pain been there myself but i
never found a indoor antenna that did as good
or better than a good quaility mobile antenna oiutside.
dale/a.k.a.hotrod
cef426
cvc#64
|
Funtimebob
Intermediate Member
Username: Funtimebob
Post Number: 336
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, December 03, 2011 - 4:10 pm: |
|
Full Attic?
how accessible?
how much distance between the floor/peak inside the attic? enough room for a 2m J-pole?(around 5 feet?) there are even versions for 2/440
A full wave loop for 6 meters squared would only be about 5'x5'
or perhaps a loop cut for 28.33 with an antenna tuner to cover 10-11m would be about 35.5/4 feet or you could hang it as a delta loop,,,,,,,
Dyslexics of the world UNTIE!
No I'm not a Tech,I just know enough to be a nuisance.
|
392
Member
Username: 392
Post Number: 89
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, December 03, 2011 - 11:59 pm: |
|
Funtimebob, yes I do have enough room in the attic for a 2 meter antenna. It has a tall peak. I assume I will need to ground the antenna? Big question, does this work, the antenna in the attic? Will the structure (wood) interfere? I have enough room for a small ground plane or even a small beam. Anyone here ever tried it before??
Thanks all, 392 |
392
Member
Username: 392
Post Number: 90
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, December 04, 2011 - 12:04 am: |
|
Dale, I did consider putting the antenna on my vehicle, and run coax into the house. I may experiement with that. I have a 50 foot role of RG8 and a coupler. I have a galaxy in the mobile now, but the reception does drop off quite a bit when I pull into the driveway. I assume the houses knock it down. For now I drive to a vacent lot behind my subdivision, talk and listen out of the vehicle and yes, it is a pain! |
Dale
Senior Member
Username: Dale
Post Number: 1792
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, December 04, 2011 - 9:47 am: |
|
idont have a ham ticket. so i used a cobra 19
with a indoor firestick antenna designed for
indoor use .i got about 2-3 miles out on a very quiet day. but the rfi was terrible.now i was
in a 1 story house.so you might have a advanatage using the attic idk.the wood shouldnt give ya any trouble.i do know metal does.best of luck in whatever ya do
dale/a.k.a.hotrod
cef426
cvc#64
|
Tech833
Moderator
Username: Tech833
Post Number: 2072
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, December 04, 2011 - 12:50 pm: |
|
Do you have an air conditioner unit on the roof? A multiband mag mount on the AC unit works great.
Alternately, have you considered a patriotic flag pole in the front yard? Antennas in a PVC pipe is a powerful solution. Bury the coax between the pole and the house, done! No HOA wants to tell someone to take their American flag down.
Your radio 'Mythbuster' since 1998
|
Jon666
Intermediate Member
Username: Jon666
Post Number: 454
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, December 04, 2011 - 5:49 pm: |
|
better off with a dipole in the attic.
that's what i use works great
what don't kill you makes you stronger
|
Allagator
Advanced Member
Username: Allagator
Post Number: 829
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Monday, December 05, 2011 - 3:57 pm: |
|
Tech 833 has it there is a company that makes a flag pole antenna that covers 160-70cm bit pricy but ive seen 2 and they work great !
CEF 115 / CEF HAM 290 /KC9OKX
|
Allagator
Advanced Member
Username: Allagator
Post Number: 830
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Monday, December 05, 2011 - 4:08 pm: |
|
when i lived in the condo i put my coax in pvc and buried it then at the tree i painted it to match the tree i used a wire dipole for 11m worked great till the HOA told me the tree had to go ! thats when i moved to Ill and im way out in the sticks now ! let them gripe now ! HA HA HA
CEF 115 / CEF HAM 290 /KC9OKX
|
392
Member
Username: 392
Post Number: 91
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Monday, December 05, 2011 - 11:15 pm: |
|
OK I do have an AC in the attic. I will try the mobile mag mount on the unit and see what happens. Did get dsome great ideas here, but I do not see much hopw for 10 or 11 meters, the antennas just have to be too tall. no trees to hide it, so will run with UHF for a while!
Thanks all, 392 |
Tech833
Moderator
Username: Tech833
Post Number: 2075
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 06, 2011 - 12:55 am: |
|
You don't need the costly flag pole antenna. All you need is a white fiberglass pole or stiff PVC pipe and an A99 or Imax 2000. Mount the Imax or A99 to a metal support pipe and put the whole thing inside the plastic or fiberglass pipe and mount it outside, away from your house and noise sources!
If you can get away with a 40 foot high 'flagpole', and get the antenna as close to the top (inside of course) as possible, that gets the feedpoint over 1/2 wave above ground, and it will really work well!
If your A99 is inside a fiberglass 'flagpole' and your coax is buried, no way anyone would ever know you have a CB unless you told them.
Your radio 'Mythbuster' since 1998
|
392
Member
Username: 392
Post Number: 95
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 14, 2011 - 7:12 pm: |
|
Tech 833, could I do the same with the 3 foot balcony antenna that copper sells. I know I would need to ground it properly, correct? Better yet, could I make a vertical dipole out of 2 of these antennas and hide it inside the pipe, for better performance?
I think instead of a flagpole, I have fiberglass vent pipes in my house. My roof is tall. I could easily extend one of these pipes, paint it to match and conceal one or two of these 3 footers inside. That would give me height above the roof as well. Big question is, how will would it work, and grounding????
Many thanks, 392 |
Tech833
Moderator
Username: Tech833
Post Number: 2085
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, December 15, 2011 - 2:14 am: |
|
The short balcony antenna really does need a ground to work well. I bought one when they first came out, and have yet to figure out how to make it work even half-well.
As for putting them end to end like a dipole, forget it. You'd be better off using 2 mobile antennas for that.
Your radio 'Mythbuster' since 1998
|
392
Member
Username: 392
Post Number: 96
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Friday, December 16, 2011 - 11:41 pm: |
|
Ok copper folks, I got the 3 foot workman antenna but SWR is 3 across the band. I attached it to a gas pipe in the attic, should be grounded there, did nothing. Any ideas on the best way to ground this antenna. Someone suggested attaching it to the radio, but with what type of wire. any ideeas please!
Thanks, Tim |
Thespaceman
New member
Username: Thespaceman
Post Number: 4
Registered: 12-2011
| | Posted on Saturday, December 17, 2011 - 12:54 am: |
|
My friend slipped an A-99 antenna into an 18 foot PVC pipe, and mounted it on the roof. To that he attached a fake "TV antenna" made out of plastic rods painted silver, to the top! It looks like a mast and a TV antenna, when all the while it is an A-99 antenna hidden inside a PVC pole!  |
Tech833
Moderator
Username: Tech833
Post Number: 2087
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, December 17, 2011 - 12:56 pm: |
|
That's an excellent idea, Spaceman!
For those who have to operate 'stealth' in an area where TV antennas are OK but CB antennas are not, that is ideal! The trick is to keep the radio volume down and the windows closed so the neighbors don't catch on.
392, the 3-foot antenna is a very high Q type antenna and will not work well inside an attic. If you cannot mount it outside, then forget it.
Question- Are there any trees around your house on your property? A wire dipole would be awesome up in a tree.
Your radio 'Mythbuster' since 1998
|
Tech237
Moderator
Username: Tech237
Post Number: 1506
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, December 18, 2011 - 8:32 am: |
|
If you have a tree, you could also try a "Tree DB" antenna. Run buried coax to the tree and connect it to the tre qwith the inner and shield spaced apart. Not sure how far on 11m, but 6" works on 80m. Feed via an antenna tuner.
Surprising as it sound using a flea-powered CW transmitter, we worked over 100 contacts (all in VK-land) when we tried this 15 years back.
Tech237
N7AUS
God made me an athiest, who are you to question his wisdom?
|
Tech833
Moderator
Username: Tech833
Post Number: 2088
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, December 18, 2011 - 11:43 am: |
|
Yea, but the tree has to be full of moisture for it to work.
And, on lower bands it will work better than on higher bands. For 11m, it will be very disappointing.
If you bury coax from your shack to the tree, might as well run the coax up the tree and put a good antenna in it.
You can direct bury the CA-400 cable sold by Copper.
Your radio 'Mythbuster' since 1998
|
Jon666
Intermediate Member
Username: Jon666
Post Number: 456
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, December 18, 2011 - 5:45 pm: |
|
i have 2 of them 3 foot ant. junk
swrs out of sight
what don't kill you makes you stronger
|
392
Member
Username: 392
Post Number: 98
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Monday, December 19, 2011 - 12:57 am: |
|
Tech 833, ok understood the workman 3 footer will not do well inside. I will try on a telescoping pole outside, just raise it up after dark when I want to talk. I have no trees to hide it.
I ran a test using the pole, at 20 feet. Had SWR at 3 across the band. i read in another post to ground it to the radio, is this correct?
If so, with what type of wire as standard wire radiates doesn't it?
I may also just paint it brown like my roof, mount it outside on the vent pipe. and take my chances. I like the a99 idea from spaceman, but to tall, i would never get away with it.
Looks like my home options are very few. I will just need to spend more time at my farm. I posted on the 100 foot tower on this same forum!
No HOA there! 392 |
Assaulter
Member
Username: Assaulter
Post Number: 58
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 21, 2011 - 10:57 pm: |
|
Do what I'm about to do. Get two of the copper adjustable 10k nightsticks, and a vertical dipole mount from the k1cra ham store. Essentially you'll have a vertical dipole. The higher the better. And only 4 foot total... I've heard of people using them this way and it just being slightly less in signal than an antron. |
392
Intermediate Member
Username: 392
Post Number: 102
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, December 22, 2011 - 4:44 pm: |
|
Cool! Can this be done with longer whips, like the 4 or 5 footers?? |
Tech833
Moderator
Username: Tech833
Post Number: 2091
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, December 22, 2011 - 11:48 pm: |
|
It can be done with any of the mobile whips. But, it works best if you use two 102" whips. The longer the whips, the better it will work.
Your radio 'Mythbuster' since 1998
|
392
Intermediate Member
Username: 392
Post Number: 110
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, December 29, 2011 - 8:14 pm: |
|
OK the Workman 3 footer is doing pretty good so far! Got it on a vent pipe, talking DX on SSB every morning, only 75 watts. Actually hears pretty darn good also. SWR 1.2 entire band. Waiting to see how HOA reacts. Can't be seen from the front, but is visable from the sides.
392 |
Tech833
Moderator
Username: Tech833
Post Number: 2094
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, December 31, 2011 - 12:04 pm: |
|
It's a vent extension. That's all they need to know. Hide the cable.
Your radio 'Mythbuster' since 1998
|
Mikefromms
Senior Member
Username: Mikefromms
Post Number: 1121
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 29, 2012 - 5:32 pm: |
|
Get an Icom AH-4 end fed tuner and run a wire to the bottom of your rain gutters. Run a short wire from the ground side of tuner to a ground rod or copper water pipes. Also with this end fed tuner you can run a really thin wire, one very invisible, with a fishing weight on end, throw it over the highest tree branch and tune it just like you would the rain gutter. If the wire is about 60 feet long you should tune up 75 thru 6 meters. Keep wire out of reach of kids. |
Tech237
Moderator
Username: Tech237
Post Number: 1541
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, March 01, 2012 - 8:50 am: |
|
MIke =- only works if metal gutters, and lot of gutters today or plastic.
Tech237
N7AUS
God made me an athiest, who are you to question his wisdom?
|
Mikefromms
Senior Member
Username: Mikefromms
Post Number: 1124
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, March 03, 2012 - 9:31 pm: |
|
That's is implied. All hams and cber's know that plastic is only good for insulators not radiators...well..I hope they do! LOL! |
Tech237
Moderator
Username: Tech237
Post Number: 1543
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, March 04, 2012 - 8:34 am: |
|
THey most likely do, but what I was getting at is they may not know if their gutter is metal or not.
Tech237
N7AUS
God made me an athiest, who are you to question his wisdom?
|
Mikefromms
Senior Member
Username: Mikefromms
Post Number: 1126
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, March 04, 2012 - 2:45 pm: |
|
LOL, I have also heard of folks putting long wire runs around their house inside the plastic type gutters and getting on the air. I have learned a lot on my own trying to be secret squirrel with my hobby when I lived in HOA community. I learned to love the remote tuners or end fed tuners like Icom AH-4. I love building antennas and just successfully built a fanned dipole for 75, 40 and 20 meters. It requires no tuner on the voice portion of the bands. Took some pruning but I did it. |
Dave_sr798
New member
Username: Dave_sr798
Post Number: 1
Registered: 4-2012
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 11, 2012 - 1:14 am: |
|
I slapped a wilson 5K mag mount on top of my chimney top. There is a 2.5 X 6 foot piece of sheet metal up on top where the stove pipe comes out. I ran 50 feet of RG8 down the stove pipe and presto! well under 2.0 swr. The HOA nazis never look up! They are too busy looking for dog •••• and graffiti. I say hide it in plain sight. |
392
Intermediate Member
Username: 392
Post Number: 167
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 11, 2012 - 8:35 pm: |
|
Dave i may try that one, i have a chimney with a stack and it does have sheet metal up there.....
thanks! |
Kc8gpd
Member
Username: Kc8gpd
Post Number: 51
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2012 - 12:54 pm: |
|
i've been hearing of many hoa's now requiring vehicles be parked in garages and not allowing flag pole because hams are using those as ways around hoa restrictions.
seems anything that they find a ham using to get around hoa antenna restrictions all of a sudden becomes a banned activity. some hoa's has gone as far as saying you can not have any rf transmitting devices in on or around hoa property.
i mean these hoa's are frothing at the idea of any radio equipment being used in their plush little commie hoods.
Rev. Robert P. Chrysafis
|
Tech833
Moderator
Username: Tech833
Post Number: 2150
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Friday, April 13, 2012 - 11:11 pm: |
|
All good info.
If you have trees, that is your best bet. If not, you are faced with hiding dipole antennas in your attic.
But, the simple fact is, if you plan on enjoying any kind of radio hobby (CB, ham, SWL, BCB DXing, scanners, etc.), then you need to choose a home that is not located in a no-antenna zone.
If you already lived in a neighborhood with CC&R's that prohibit antennas before you actually took up a radio hobby, then it is simply time to move.
If you were already a radio hobbyist, and chose to move into a home or apartment with antenna restrictions, then you did so knowingly. Don't complain.
The latter reminds me of those people that buy homes next to an existing airport, then later complain about the noise and seek to stop the airport operations rather than do the right thing and move.
Your radio 'Mythbuster' since 1998
|
Mikefromms
Senior Member
Username: Mikefromms
Post Number: 1137
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Friday, April 13, 2012 - 10:10 pm: |
|
The best thing is move away from other people. I hate hoa communities. You've got a hobby you love and one life, one, mind you. Who are they to tell you in America you can't enjoy your hobby? Say bye to them and get away from the arrangement.
But where there is a will there is a way. If you have any length of attic you could build a dipole 88 foot long (44 foot on each side) ladderline if possible and run that to a tuner like an Icom Ah-4. Place the center of the antenna as high in center of attic as possible. That section is the most critical. If you don't have room for the full length, work the ends to the sides and bend them around just get it up. This length will give you a good pattern of radiation minus the fact it is in the attic. Ease power up until you are comfortable you can run it at 100 watts. You might or might not be able to. One of the bands might trip a breaker or cause some interferene of some kind but you will discover that and work around it,i.e, turn down power, install a filter, you can get on the air. The 88 foot long dipole will tune and work from 75 meters to 6 meters. It will work best on 20 meters and very good on 40 through 10. 75 and 6 are a compromise but try and see. Some folks run insulated wire around the eve of their house and tune it with a tuner. I have used a good tuner with the metal rain gutters. It works but be careful. Keep studying on it and experiment. I have learned so much by experimenting. Never let your neighbors know you are in the hobby. Secret squirrel. |
