| Author |
Message |
    
Drcat
New member
Username: Drcat
Post Number: 1
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Monday, November 29, 2004 - 7:44 pm: | 
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I would like to learn how to skip. Can someone please explain in detail?
And please explain how propagation, bands, weather, ground plain, dx, sideband and the best times has an effect on skipping.
Thank you! |
Karatebutcher
Senior Member
Username: Karatebutcher
Post Number: 1818
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Monday, November 29, 2004 - 8:23 pm: |
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yes LON |
Coyote
New member
Username: Coyote
Post Number: 2
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Monday, November 29, 2004 - 9:46 pm: |
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Skip, in my opinion, is a matter of luck, at least for me it seems that way. I find a channel, usually channel 38, lower side band, mid morning through the late afternoon and listen. If the conditions are there you'll know it. Listen for someone with a strong signal and try to catch their call sign. When they have finished transmitting, try to contact them. "CQ CQDX (station call sign/location)(your call sign/location)" and wait. With luck, they'll come back to you. It helps to know the "Q" codes but is not real important and you can find them on the internet or just listen a while and you'll catch on to what the main ones are and what they mean. I haven't been "skipping" long, but so far on my mobile unit I have contacted 666 in Salt Lake Utah, CA300 in Cali., 5044 in Palm Beach Cali, 107 in Washington State, some in New Mexico, Arizona, Canada, West Indies (on mobile using base setup), and a few others. I'll leave all the TECH ?'s you posted to someone with more knowledge. Hope this helps get you started anyway. It's fun and exciting to see where you can reach and when. btw, Im in Middle TN., 1157 call sign, Tennessee Coyote
Good Luck! |
Kid_vicious
Junior Member
Username: Kid_vicious
Post Number: 47
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Monday, November 29, 2004 - 9:52 pm: |
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drcat, im afraid that the answers to your questions would take an entire book. or more. go to the library and get a copy of the ARRL handbook. you'll know which book it is because they're huge! this book will give you the best starting point ever. in leiu of that, here are some basics. start with an antenna that is of good quality and of the correct type for your application. (base or mobile). turn on your radio during the early afternoon before the sun begins to go down. listen to channel 38 lsb. the signals you are hearing are going from the operators antenna, bouncing off of the ionosphere, and bouncing back down to your antenna. the term skip may have someting to do with the similarity to skipping a rock. anyway, get the book, you'll love it.
matt |
Patzerozero
Intermediate Member
Username: Patzerozero
Post Number: 240
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 30, 2004 - 5:08 pm: |
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drcat, where in ny are you? |
Dindin
Intermediate Member
Username: Dindin
Post Number: 453
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 30, 2004 - 7:59 pm: |
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DrCat,
first off,Welcome to the forum.here is a link to Hf propagation;
http://www.firecommunications.com/propflash.htm
it will help understand some of the dynamics of "skip".At hf(3 to 30 mhz)athmospheric weather does not have as much effect on communication as does terrestial or "space"weather.here is a useful link with propagation prediction maps that can be used to predict hf conditions much the same as a weathermap is used to predict weather.
http://www.spacew.com/www/realtime.html
as far as time of dayhere in s.e.Ohio around 8 to 10 am est communication is possible with western Europe.as the day progresses comms shift to the North and South Americas.continuing to the Pacific area making comms with Alaska,Hawaii on into the south Pacific areas of Austrailia,Indonesia and Eastern Europe during the early evening.this is probley leaving you scratching your head,so we'll see what questions you come up with now.
Dennis,CEF#291/ham#42 kc8zpj
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Drcat
New member
Username: Drcat
Post Number: 2
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 01, 2004 - 11:23 pm: |
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Hello guys: I listen alot to Shortwave on my Sony 2010 at night. I always thought that radio signals were best during the evening. But for 10 & 11 meters, it would seem that day time is best.
So how could you best pick up across time zones?
Here is my homebase rig: I am using a Cobra 148 CB, with a preamp EP-27, MFJ DELUXE VERSA TURNER 2, with a WILSON 5000 attn. I am not sure if I have a my gig well grounded.
I plan to use a Fiberglass Whip up on my roof in the near future. (I will be using an attn swicher for both attn with RU8 coax).
After I put the Fiberglass Whip on the roof I might add a tristar for ground plane.
Is ground plane the same as grounding?^?
Would a tristar ground plane help me skip?^?
And how about the Wilson 5000 magnet mount bottom load? What does a load do?
BTW I will be listening to ch 38 LSB.
drcat/Queens New York/CEF200
73! |
Drcat
New member
Username: Drcat
Post Number: 5
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, December 02, 2004 - 12:21 am: |
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Oh forgot to mention. I may want to paint the fiberglass whip attn because I want a lowprofile attn. I want to paint it the same color as the roof.
Could fiberglass whips be painted? And what kind of paint should I use?
And what should I use to seal the connectors from rain?
73 |
Tech808
Moderator
Username: Tech808
Post Number: 4196
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, December 02, 2004 - 12:30 am: |
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Drcat,
Yes, they can be painted with any NON-Metallic Paint.
Try to find paint for Fiberglass.
Hope this helps.
Lon
Tech808
CEF808
N9OSN |
Coyote
New member
Username: Coyote
Post Number: 7
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, December 02, 2004 - 5:50 am: |
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Drcat,
I dont think a ground plane is the same as grounding. Although i think i read on here somewhere that the GP kit really isnt worth the effort or money. You need to run a separate ground line from the base of the antenna to an 8 foot copper ground rod. An be sure to use a lightning arrestor too. I suppose you could use non dielectric (sp) grease to seal your connections. It will repel water like vasaline, oil, regular grease does. It should work but im sure if it wont someone will correct me. Or i suppose you could use some type of rubber boot at your connection, or silicone on the connection once its connected. |
Kid_vicious
Member
Username: Kid_vicious
Post Number: 52
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, December 05, 2004 - 12:34 am: |
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use the dielectric grease that you use on your spark plug wires and such. i like to use heat shrink tubing over the threaded connections on an antron or imax.
if you look at my earlier post you will see that i mention usuing the correct setup for your situation. i said that because i suspected by your post that you were misusing your antenna. the problem with using a mobile antenna in a base setup is that there is usually no place with a large enough metal surface to act as the ground plane.(like your car would). if i were you i would try to find something big and metal on your roof to attatch that wilson 5000 to. in my early experimental days, i used contact adhesive to cover a 4x8 sheet of plywood with tin foil and mounted my mobil antenna to that and it worked ok.
i noticed you said you were running a preamp and an antenna tuner. two things: if your swr is very high without the tuner in line, then your antenna is definitely not performing very well. also those preamps are notorious for incresing the noise just as much as the signals you are trying to amplify. if i were you i would 86 the tuner and the preamp, make sure your coax and connections are in good condition, and put that antenna on a big piece of metal.
on to the other questions. dont bother with the tristar. if your fiberglass "base" antenna will be mounted less than say 15 ft. above the house, then get the ground plane kit available for your particular antenna. this will help with tv interference. if you do get a real base antenna, just take the wilson down and use it for the car. theres really no need to switch between the two. also remember that ANY device you put between the radio and the antenna is going to decrease your net antenna gain. (by about 1db per device.)
when people are talking about "grounding" there are two types they are talking about. there is an electrical ground(like in your car) and there is "RF" ground. this is the ground people are referring to when they mention a "ground plane". it acts as a counterpoise for your antenna. do a google search for "dipole antennas" and you will learn about what i mean by counterpoise.
hope this helps.
matt |
Drcat
Junior Member
Username: Drcat
Post Number: 10
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 07, 2004 - 11:44 pm: |
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Thanks Matt. I am not sure which ground plane to use with my fiberglass attn? And I hope that there not too big or wide. My understanding is that their suppose to help the signal to spread out more. (Better for dx).
Instead of painting the fiberglass attn, could I just wrap it with electric tape? I want it to match the same color of the roof area.
And because their are other TV attn of the roof, should I use a high or low pass filter and where on the coax line should I put it?
BTW the fiberglass attn is on a 5 feet mass from the roof level.
73
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Beantown
Junior Member
Username: Beantown
Post Number: 37
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, December 19, 2004 - 10:07 am: |
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your station i^^^^^^| DX Station
Let me see if this little drawing helps ya figure out skip. A counterpoise or ground plane in a simple explanation help lower the angle of radiation or signal from your station. The top of the peaks in my •••• poor drawing represent your signal bouncing off the ionoshpere. The lower angle of radiation usually means the farther that your skip (signal) will travel. If the peaks and valley are close together the less distance the signal will travel. It will take more hops to get to the same place. Now with the correct countrpoise the "hops" spread out and are of a greater distance. This enables your signal to go farther.
Think of your signal as a superball. If you throw a superball straight down at the floor in your house how far will the ball travel every time it hits the cieling. Now throw that superball at the floor at a 45 degree angle and watch how far it goes with less hop or skips. I think a superball was my first lesson in DX!  And my Mom hated all the little popcorn peices that fell from the cieling!
With a ground radial it helps lower the angle of radiation that your signal travels, thus the less hops and further distance the signal travels. This also helps with getting out farther with local contacts. With an extreme steep take off angle your signal might bounce right over local contacts.
Now the antenna itself by shear design may do better with DX talking. Fiberglass antennas don't have the "mass" that a aluminium antenna does and by the nature of design have better ears to pull in those weak DX signals. My Maco V5000 has a very low angle of radiation and great ears to boot. Friends of mine that have IMAX2000 and run the ground plane kit say the ears on there glass antenna are much improved than running the antenna without them.
Some ideas for a counterpoise that will help you get out better. A 4x8 foot piece of sheet metal under your antenna mast will work wonders. Heck I ran a Wilson 1000 on top of my Snapon toolbox in my garage for awhile and the toolbox was all it needed for the counterpoise. I have a ham friend that had a 6 meter antenna mounted to a metal trash can lid in his garage rafters and could talk skip like ya read about! I have even mounted a Top one Astroplane in my attic and with sheet metal under it. Surprisingly enough that antenna talked great I evn got a contact with Pig040 with my antenna in the attic. He is in AZ and I am in N.C.
Trying this stuff for me is all part of this hobby, yeah I know the ARRL doesn't think us 11 meter guys and gals have a hobby so it must be an addiction! ;) Experiment with different setups and you will be amazed just how far you really can talk! And you can talk across the country on just 4 watts when the conditions are right! And I realize that I may not have used the correct terminology is parts of this post. Do as others have suggested, theres a ton of info out there on propagation that will really open your eyes to this
hope this helps,
CEF260 |
Jon666
Intermediate Member
Username: Jon666
Post Number: 312
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, December 19, 2004 - 5:07 pm: |
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put on foot it front
of the other and hop
that is skip hehe |
Coyote
Junior Member
Username: Coyote
Post Number: 35
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Monday, December 20, 2004 - 10:06 am: |
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I was wondering how long it would take before someone put that in here.... jon..
CEF443 |
Bruce
Senior Member
Username: Bruce
Post Number: 1908
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 21, 2004 - 7:57 am: |
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INCORRECT
"Trying this stuff for me is all part of this hobby, yeah I know the ARRL doesn't think us 11 meter guys and gals have a hobby so it must be an addiction!"
CORRECT ...
The FCC and ITU dosn't think of you as a hobby. The ARRL dosn't care. |
Wolverine
Intermediate Member
Username: Wolverine
Post Number: 271
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 21, 2004 - 8:30 am: |
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Take a flat rock, aim the rock at a body of water, chunk the rock a low angle, and let her fly. you should get 3 to 5 bounces or "skips" off the water. |
Jon666
Intermediate Member
Username: Jon666
Post Number: 313
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, December 23, 2004 - 2:58 pm: |
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sorry
i just couldent help myself
jon |
