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Message |
    
Sinker
Intermediate Member
Username: Sinker
Post Number: 291
Registered: 8-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, December 04, 2005 - 7:22 pm: | 
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Ever since the problem I had two weeks ago - SWR SPIKE - nothing has seemed right with my station. Tomorrow I start all over again from the Tip Top of the Antenna to the Wall Outlet - Yep Coax and everything.
Working on things tonight I noticed I could here the Weather Station on all channels - only faintly in the background but there non the less. If I turn the RF Gain all the way down the weather station is all I hear when on AM - I HAVE NO CLUE.
Seems also I get better reception with only the center pin of the coax touching the connector, when I screw it on the reception goes down - I don't know maybe it is supposed to.
Major frustrated and going to take a break for a bit. Re-gain my senses (if I have any left) and start again for my own piece of mind. |
Wildrat
Intermediate Member
Username: Wildrat
Post Number: 417
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, December 04, 2005 - 9:15 pm: |
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Maybe ck your ground system and freq.blocking.
Wildrat |
Wildrat
Intermediate Member
Username: Wildrat
Post Number: 418
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, December 04, 2005 - 9:42 pm: |
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Sinker,
Your problems started when you came home from going somewhere didn't it? NoOne home,all the family gone too? If this is the case, ck your stuff outside real close, ck your connectors, get those aligator clips and meter,it is best to ck them with a meter movement type of meter, that way you can see the needle move if something happens while your wiggling(you can get one of these for a couple of bucks and it will work fine for this test., a digital doesn't react fast enough to see problems, you'll see the needle move, where you might not see the digits move and then when you do see digits move then you have to interpret that. , make sure the piece you are cking is disconnected at both ends. Don't get too frustrated, just be meticulous in your cking, also when you get the system up again and runnung you might want to put some coax seal on your connectors exposed to the elements. A number of things may have happened, wind, saboteur, young child problem(they like turning things) I wish I were closer, I would come find your problem, or you would with guidance, I'm not good for much, but I am a good Acft.elect. tech., it's not a airplane but it's just wires. I don't know what else to tell you, just be meticulous in your cking, ck your antenna switches too they can cause problems, especially the mechanical ones(rotary switch) they get corrosion on them and if it's bad they won't conduct. Dosy's little A-SW-4 is a good inexpensive switch that you don't have to worry about corrosion on it. Don't use those amps till you know your SWR are good. Your meters could just be reacting too harmonics, you do have a tvi filter and all that good stuff don't you?
Wildrat
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Road_warrior
Senior Member
Username: Road_warrior
Post Number: 1017
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, December 04, 2005 - 10:08 pm: |
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No, it is not normal for reception to go down when screwing on connector to back of radio.
I have had that problem a few times and it always turned out to be a bad connector/solderjob/jumper or something in those lines.
Not sure what you mean about weather stations coming in...
I know right before your SWRs went crazy, your system sounded great! |
Patzerozero
Senior Member
Username: Patzerozero
Post Number: 2020
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, December 04, 2005 - 10:23 pm: |
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weather stations...you're having trouble with the 696 hooked up? if you hook up a different radio, do you still get the same 'center pin only' condition? could it be RADIO trouble, as opposed to antenna trouble?
as road warrior suggests, maybe a connector problem from moving things around?
lastly, forget which antenna you're using...if it's imax, maybe it's in the process of dying, if maco, maybe a flamingo landed on the ring or a pelican pecked at it looking for fish???{ tryin' to lighten things up} but, possibly trouble with match/ring/coax mount at antenna? |
Kid_vicious
Advanced Member
Username: Kid_vicious
Post Number: 924
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, December 04, 2005 - 10:59 pm: |
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you hear the weather channel on all CB channels 1-40?
or when you have the radio in weather mode?
try a different radio, like the 2000. do you still hear them? if not, the problem is in your radio with the weather channels on it.
tim, this kind of problem can drive you nuts and also leave you with an empty wallet and a room full of parts you dont need.
the only thing i can tell you is to take everything apart and start the troubleshooting process.
start with your best guess as to which radio is the most reliable and hook it to your SWR meter and then to the antenna coax. (NO ANTENNA SWITCHES OR ANYTHING ELSE INLINE)
hows the SWR? good?
OK, now add your boomer 500 inline between the radio and SWR meter. leave the jumper attatched to the radio and connect it to the input of the amp. now use a different jumper fromt the amp to the SWR meter.
check the SWR on the same channel with the amp on.
SWR still good? (if it went from 1.3 to 1.5 thats still considered good)
OK, now switch the jumpers. did the readings stay the same? (same channel)
NO? you have found your bad jumper. you cannot consider a jumper to be "good" just because it shows no shorts on the voltmeter. there are other factors that determine how well the jumper transfers power. checking them using an amp is the best way because a jumper that shows no problems pushing 4 watts can be worthless for 100 or more watts.
so your SWR stayed the same (or very, very, very close to the same)?
OK, now change out the jumper going from the amp to the SWR meter for a different one.
SWR still good?
OK, continue to check all jumpers in this manner.
SWR still good? power output of amp about the same for all jumpers?
GOOD! you have successfully ruled out your jumpers as the cause of your problems and can use them with confidence. ( i always wiggle the jumpers around while checking the SWR to make sure there are no loose connections. very evident on the SWR meter)
now, switch out your SWR meter for another one.
are the readings about the same?
good, you now know that your SWR meters are accurate.
now try different radios. keep the amp inline but only turn it on for the radios that are set up for it.
when trying different radios, you should try to get a radio check for each radio. this will help alot if you get someone who knows what theyre doing.
if any of the radios cause your now trusted SWR meter, or amp to act funny, you know its the radios fault.
now you can start adding in other things like antenna switches, low pass filters and the like. each time making sure that you have only ONE VARIABLE in the setup at a time.
good luck, and dont start buying new stuff just yet!
matt |
Sinker
Intermediate Member
Username: Sinker
Post Number: 293
Registered: 8-2005
| | Posted on Monday, December 05, 2005 - 8:22 am: |
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Guys, GREAT ADVICE & THANKS.
Will check today to see if birds bent up my Maco Antenna. Then will check each said item like KV suggested.
I would have said the most reliable system I had was the TR 696-F SSB Base as I bought it brand new from Copper not long ago BUT it is the one I can hear the weather stations on. It was not even hooked up the day of the trouble as I was testing the Saturn Turbo that day, so I thought all would be fine with this radio. It has already been back to Copper once as was the first KLV-1000 now it sounds as though I may need to send them both again - that is over 100 bucks shipping again.
Seriously thinking about selling all this stuff and going back to a mobile for base operations at least they are cheaper to send back. Do the auction sites charge you to sell stuff? Sure they do, what % ?? I could get a new Custom Fishing Rod....
SERIOUSLY, I have to be a bit careful right now as I was about ready to start throwing things yesterday (sometimes I have an explosive anger problem).
Forget it - Gonna go fishing - at least I know what I'm doing with that (or pretend like I do when the fish cooperate).
Buried to my eyes in the sand
Tim
CEF-634 |
Wildrat
Intermediate Member
Username: Wildrat
Post Number: 419
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, December 05, 2005 - 8:39 am: |
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You should make your own custom rods. Much cheaper to build. The only difficult part is the design at the base,and it's not hard after someone shows you the basics. I still need to build a rod, I got the seat, have not bought the other components yet. Kinda hard to get interested in building rods when you can't fish. Don't worry about the radio stuff, you'll find the problem. It's just a pain when ys wanna talk and can't, kinda like wanting to fish and can't. I'm even selling my 72 Chevelle Wagon because I can't enjoy it anymore. Just be patient and meticulous in your cking.
Wildrat |
Hotwire
Advanced Member
Username: Hotwire
Post Number: 718
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Monday, December 05, 2005 - 10:17 am: |
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Sinker! You stated that you get reception with only center pin inserted and when you screw on the barrel connector you get bad reception? If this is the case then STOP! You have a short in your coax! Could be cause by damage you can't see outside on the coax. Someone may have pinned your coax and if they knew what they were doing you would never know! A kid may have pulled on the coax or the dog may have found a tasty treat. May even be one of the many componants you have inline causing this short to occur.If I was a betting man I would put all my money on the coax and you do have a lot of coax ya know. Hope I'm right and a help. |
Cornbrown
Member
Username: Cornbrown
Post Number: 82
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Monday, December 05, 2005 - 10:33 am: |
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Hey Sinker check your Poly Phasers.... Take them out of line and see what happens. Maybe your antenna tool a lightning strike when you were away. |
Sinker
Intermediate Member
Username: Sinker
Post Number: 294
Registered: 8-2005
| | Posted on Monday, December 05, 2005 - 11:32 am: |
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Wildrat - I have my own line of Fishing Rods - it's what I do for a living although I can not afford many of the rods I sell as they are all very high end, usually custom ordered and some sell as high as 1500 bucks each. The cheapest rod I sell for just the parts runs me 140 bucks.
Hotwire - I am taking everything down. I am seriously considering hiring a guy to come out and install a 3 element Maco beam and Imax 2000 above it and run all new coax.
Only thing that confuses me is he said they will set the SWR before they even put it on top of the Tower with an Antenna Analyzer - How does that work? I thought different length jumpers and coax runs could change the SWR. Guess I do not understand it very well.
Anyway I should have a price from them tomorrow for the install and then a 2 week window before they can get to it. |
Road_warrior
Senior Member
Username: Road_warrior
Post Number: 1022
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Monday, December 05, 2005 - 1:10 pm: |
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An Antenna Analyzer is more accurate then
SWR meters. They will have to get the beam at
least 10 ft off the ground and away from
objects to set SWRS.
Your coax from antenna will plug in directly
to the Antenna Analyzer. Not into your radio equipment. I used a MFJ Antenna Analyzer to set the SWRS on my I-10K before i installed it.
The Imax 2000 will pretty much already be pre-set SWRS for 11 meters when you recieve it. It has tuning rings if it needs adjusted. But, i have had 3 Imaxs and never had to touch Tuning Rings.
Good Luck!
JIM/PA/CEF 375
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Patzerozero
Senior Member
Username: Patzerozero
Post Number: 2026
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Monday, December 05, 2005 - 1:24 pm: |
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basically, the analyzer is a very low powered transmitter, that plugs into the antenna. not only exactly telling you what your SWR's are, but MORE precisely telling you impedance and other good stuff about your antenna, including the frequency it is resonant on in its current state of tune. then, you make adjustments to get the antenna tuned to where you want it to be & readjust. it can also tell you the impedance of your coax, its length, if it's good or bad including WHERE a short or problem inside the coax may be. all while everything is on the ground. once it is up & you start adding accessories & jumpers, all bets are off  . reflected power due to jumper lengths then needs to be dealt with on a case by case basis.
for under $250, a very valuable tool-IF you do enough installs to warrant the cost. and IF you understand exactly what it is telling you is happening. just reading the instructions will NOT help if you don't know what it all means. |
Vanillagorilla
Intermediate Member
Username: Vanillagorilla
Post Number: 359
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Monday, December 05, 2005 - 2:38 pm: |
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Mr Sinker,
With ALL DUE RESPECT  I see/feel your frustration in wanting to tear everything down and have someone put up all new but if that works then what did you learn? If it happens again what will you do? See where I'm going with this?
Take your time and go over the SIMPLE troubleshooting pointed out here...you'll thank yourself in the future . To me one of the best things about this hobby is experimenting and troubleshooting. You can't know or figure out EVERYTHING and thats what makes this forum such a useful tool. Not to mention all the different points of view and untapped knowledge by the great people posting here.
Look, you did your homework, bought some of the best stuff money can buy and installed most of it yourself with amazing attention to detail...and for that..as I've said before "my hats off".
All I'm saying is don't stop now. Find your problem and learn from it...take your notes mentally or on paper. Learn from you mistakes and improvement will come naturally
I say this as a friend who wishes to see you advance and benefit from the experience.
NOBODY knows your station better than you...I'd bet every square inch! Re-trace your steps and REALIZE what EVERY little thing is doing in relationship to the end result. Your problem MAY be looking you straight in the face!
Real stations are BUILT..not bought..
Now lets get to work!
Hut-hut-hut-hut! (BTW..how many Lami's I gotta roll to get that 2000GTL? )
Sincerely,
Hank |
Wildrat
Intermediate Member
Username: Wildrat
Post Number: 420
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, December 05, 2005 - 3:32 pm: |
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Maybe I should start building rods again, did not realize them Yankee's liked them rods that much. I guess I should get my station running first before I start something else. Man, you don't have to start over, the work you did setting it up looks good. You just have a small problem. It's not like your station burnt down. You just need to track down the culprit. You will learn from this. You don't need anyone to take your money from you, not unless you don't have time. I am sure you have the ability. Personally I hate it when I haave to let someone fix things for me. You never know if they are cheating ya, you never know if you will be satisfied with their work, and you never know if they can fix it. Some people think they can do things and they really can't. If you got money to blow let'em do it. I'd rather keep the money and get another piece of equipment. Why don't you go back to basics.Take out your switches and all that stuff, and just hook up a radio/meter/antenna see if it's good, then add something else. Anyway Good Luck, Hope you reconsider and fix it yourself. You may after you get a quote from this guy, not unless you bribed him with a fishing trip or something.
Wildrat
CEF674
Wildrat |
Road_warrior
Senior Member
Username: Road_warrior
Post Number: 1023
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Monday, December 05, 2005 - 4:10 pm: |
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Sinker,
An Antenna Analyzer is more accurate than meters./
The coax from antenna will go into Analyzer
instead of radio and lowest possible SWR set./
They will probably mount antenna Horz. and at least 10ft off ground and away from objects to set SWRS./ Sometimes you might have to play with jumper length./ But, antenna will be tuned to lowest SWR if they correctly install it./
Sometime in the future you may want to invest in
a good MFJ antenna tuner. They are fun to have
even if you don't need one...LOL...
JIM/PA/CEF 375
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Wildrat
Intermediate Member
Username: Wildrat
Post Number: 422
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, December 05, 2005 - 5:21 pm: |
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Sinker,
Someone I trust and seem to get along with told me this, and it is a quote:
"all a matcher does is make the radio see the proper 50 ohm impedance so its finals don't burn out. the antenna still is NOT resonant 50 ohms at the freq you are using, so, even though finals are happy, your signal is going out a poorly matched antenna-extremely INEFFICIENT! you'd be better off saving the $$ from a matcher, buying a switch and/or another antenna/adjust the mis-matched antenna."
I hope my friend doesn't mind the quote!
Wildrat
CEF674 |
Sinker
Intermediate Member
Username: Sinker
Post Number: 296
Registered: 8-2005
| | Posted on Monday, December 05, 2005 - 5:28 pm: |
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Vanillagorilla - I have been drooling over the lures you sent pics of to me. I even took the liberty of posting a picture of them on one my fishing web-sites and the response was very good. Maybe I need to team them up on the ARC Rod Site as well.
Anyway BACK TO RADIOS - YES indeed you are all right and NO I do not have the money to let someone else redo the work I have already done. I went so far as to ensure the Coax in the attic was strung (suspended) to ensure it did not cross any electrical wires, phone or cable TV wires and was well away from lighting etc.
I have checked with all my neighbors and I have never caused any interference with any of them nor do I cause problems on the radio so have no idea why someone would pin my coax, if that is even the case. If that is what happened I will be very upset and take measures that should it happen again the person doing so will be sorry they ever did such a thing.
This thing with the weather stations on the AM side of the TR 696F-SSB Base is bothering me and constantly in the back of my mind. If I send it back to Copper and nothing is wrong I will be ticked off and honestly if I send it back and something is wrong I will be ticked off - so I won't win either way. Have not had the best of luck with things I have purchased.
Going to just hook things back up in the office so I can push the desk back against the wall and the bookcase as well and take some time away from radios - Need to keep working or I won't have any money to get this stuff right or buy the S-9's for the cars. |
Vanillagorilla
Intermediate Member
Username: Vanillagorilla
Post Number: 361
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Monday, December 05, 2005 - 6:41 pm: |
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Really do wish I could be there to help! I'm no genius BUT sometimes a fresh outlook is all thats needed. Perhaps a SHORT step away is all thats needed.
I'd try a simple mobile radio-meter-antenna install and start to break it down from there.
Forget the ranger for now...hook it back up later when the swr thing is puzzeled out.
BTW..thanks for the good words on my lures..thats MY problem! Too many hobbies for one man!
Best of luck!
,,,Every lito ting...is gonna be o white. |
Starface
Intermediate Member
Username: Starface
Post Number: 351
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Monday, December 05, 2005 - 7:12 pm: |
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Sinker, would it make you feel better if I told you my galaxy 88 took a dump on me about the same time you started haveing trouble?
Maybe not, but the only SSB I have now is on the base.
I had to use a cobra 29 off the self for a mobile now till I get money to buy a new mobile with ssb.
Anyway I hope you find a simple little thing cousing you all the major frustrated.
I get frustrated when no one likes to help me out here when I have problems with my antenna as I can't drop the tower by myself as you seen why.
I did however found a 2000lb winch at walmart for $60.00 thing is I don't have a dime right now in my name..
Good luck
Till next time
Starface CEF#476
Southeast Net Control
Auburndale,FL |
Patzerozero
Senior Member
Username: Patzerozero
Post Number: 2028
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Monday, December 05, 2005 - 7:25 pm: |
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tim-a 'pinned' coax will show up as a direct short, ZERO ohms on an ohmmeter. unfortunately, you have to disconnect it from the maco, as well as the radio, as it WILL show 'ZERO' ohms with the antenna attatched. this will ALSO show shorted connectors, on the main piece of coax at least. you could check the jumpers the same way.
the fact that screwing the cable tightly to the radio shows there IS most likely a 'shorting' problem with a connection-somewhere. could be a jumper, main coax, internally in the radio, amp or other accessory, etc. before spending $$ on someone else putting up & tuning an antenna(even though a beam may be a goal), check out everything else 1st.
1. change radios-does it still happen?
if NO, it's probably in the 696
2. put the antenna ONLY (1 piece of coax) straight to the 696-does it still happen?
if NO, it's probably a jumper or accessory between radio & main coax
3. put another radio straight to antenna as above-does it still happen?
if YES, you've narrowed it down to THE MAIN COAX or ANTENNA.....
to isolate the problem, at least, we must calm down, relax, take a deep breath, & start checking step by step 
i get better results that way myself....well, that & making sure the hammer is too difficult to get to
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Road_warrior
Senior Member
Username: Road_warrior
Post Number: 1025
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Monday, December 05, 2005 - 10:23 pm: |
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My comment about antenna tuners was more
from the standpoint of using it to tune
wire and to play with homemade antennas.
Your system should be made correct at the
antenna end as Wildrat stated...
JIM/PA/CEF 375 |
Road_warrior
Senior Member
Username: Road_warrior
Post Number: 1026
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Monday, December 05, 2005 - 10:30 pm: |
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I have a friend who smashes equipment all
the time. CBs, VCR, computers./ I would feel
very sick to stomach and wallet if i pulled such a stunt./
Him>>> If it don't work> smash it and buy a
new one...LOL... I couldn't live like that!
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Road_warrior
Senior Member
Username: Road_warrior
Post Number: 1029
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 06, 2005 - 11:53 am: |
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I was thinking. Is any of your coax the solid
core type (hard)? Sometimes if bent to harsh
it breaks inside. Just a thought...
JIM/PA/CEF 375 |
Wildrat
Intermediate Member
Username: Wildrat
Post Number: 438
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 07, 2005 - 3:47 pm: |
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he's using lmr400, it does have a solid center conductor, except his jumpers.
Wildrat |
