| Author |
Message |
    
Wildrat
Advanced Member
Username: Wildrat
Post Number: 648
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 15, 2006 - 5:38 pm: | 
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Well during the nets today I had a neighbor knock on my door and moan about TVI. I have a Para Dynamics TVI filter from Copper behind my radio. I am going to move it so it will be behind my box. I Googled and found a little more info on this filter. Copper site says it can handle 1K. Does not state RMS or PEP. My Googling told me it will handle 1K RMS and 5K PEP. If this is true I can put it behind the box with no problems. We will see. I tried putting a Line Isolator from Radio Works behind the box and my SWR went from virtually flat to 1.5. RW stated that it would not affect SWR, I guess they were a little over zealous. I paid too much for the line isolator also considering what it is, next time I will go ahead and build my own. Build is kinda a strong word for a line isolator, I guess what I should say is next time I'm playing around. Line Isolators are easy to build. So anyway I hope my TVI problem will be cured after moving the filter.
Wildrat
CEF674 |
Bruce
Senior Member
Username: Bruce
Post Number: 3413
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 15, 2006 - 6:34 pm: |
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Wildrat I tried to find you at chesters ....
As for TVI what is he getting you on????? |
Wildrat
Advanced Member
Username: Wildrat
Post Number: 649
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 15, 2006 - 6:59 pm: |
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The fella inside said he saw you. I got there just after 7. I went inside and got a couple of things I needed, talked for a few then we went out to look for you. He went all over the parking lot, he did not find you. So I figured you left.
As far as the TVI, the wife answered the door, and she let me know.It was his TV, I think they are on rabbit ears, I'm not sure Bruce.
Mark
Wildrat |
Road_warrior
Senior Member
Username: Road_warrior
Post Number: 1158
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, January 15, 2006 - 9:02 pm: |
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Creating a choke up at your antenna would
of been something to try. Since tower is
already up, maybe you can figure something
else out. It may be overload from high wattage.
Does it come over his TV when running lower
wattages out of radio? Good luck Wildrat!
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Kid_vicious
Senior Member
Username: Kid_vicious
Post Number: 1036
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Monday, January 16, 2006 - 12:08 am: |
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mark,
pretty much guaranteed that the offender is HIS TV.
especially if you were running sideband.
now the chances of him agreeing that its his TV's fault. fat chance!
so, here are the checks you can do on your end. if they dont cure the problem; then you'll have to buy a high pass filter for the back of his TV and a few ferrite beads to wrap wires around.
is your modulation limiter clipped?
if it is, then the problem is your fault, and nothing you do will stop it.
what is the jumper length from radio to amp? about 9 feet is a good place to start.
if the radio you are using has a built in SWR meter, then you can check to see if your amp is reflecting any power back at the radio.
if the SWR on the radio's meter is 1.5 or less, amp on, then you're fine, if not, change the length until you get it good.
the low pass filter should be the last thing inline before going out to your polyphazer.
you might also try running a low pass filter between the radio and amp along with the other one. i think Lon does this.
if all this produces no results, then the problem is on his end.
the only problem with telling him that its his problem, is that you are running "not so legal" stuff. if he calls the cops, you will have the problems.
if its his rabbit ears that are the problem; you can tell his that he only has about six months before they cut broadcast TV off the air and go totally digital.
wont be an issue then!
if he's a nice guy, he might let you look at the way that his house is grounded.
if its not so good, maybe you guys can work something out to get an electrician to pound in a ground rod at his house.
hope this helps,
that's gotta be frustrating!
matt |
Wildrat
Advanced Member
Username: Wildrat
Post Number: 657
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 16, 2006 - 9:37 am: |
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I am running my out of the box Magnum from Copper. I have the TVI filter behind the amp. My SWR is excellent. I am thinking of running another TVI filter behind the radio, may order it now, maybe Copper can ship it with my other order. I'll be right back. Got another TVI filter on order now. Yea I should have put a line isolator or something at antenna feed , but I did not, and I am glad I did not use Radio Works line isolator with the way it affected my SWR connecting it just after the amp, I might put it behind the radio, I don't know. I am pretty sure the guy has rabbit ears considering his living conditions. Same guy that pretty much accused me of lying about having a telephone. During one of the storms this person lost his phone service, comes knocking on my door wanting to know if I have a telephone. I told him no, and I don't, I have cell phones, got rid of my phone years ago when I got broadband. Then he says again you don't have a phone, and I said no and sent him on his way. And know I do not believe it affected him with box off, as he did not come back over. I ck'd my next door neighbor and he had no probs, and he is usually is the one that tells me when there's a problem, friendly of course, he thinks it's funny when he's sitting there and I would all of a sudden be in the living room with him.
Mark
Wildrat
CEF674 |
Bruce
Senior Member
Username: Bruce
Post Number: 3416
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 16, 2006 - 10:44 am: |
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Wildrat .....
1) Telephones are not protected by any law ...
2) Rabbit ears? who in 2006 is running rabbit ears and what channel is he hearing you on?
3) The FCC rules are if you use a filter on your radio ( lets forget about that amp for now ) they look at it as your in compliance with the rules ..... simply to take the first step to solving the problem ... |
Road_warrior
Senior Member
Username: Road_warrior
Post Number: 1159
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Monday, January 16, 2006 - 12:12 pm: |
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I use a LM-TVX2 MTI low pass filter
from coppers as Tech 808 suggested in
another post months ago.
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Wildrat
Advanced Member
Username: Wildrat
Post Number: 662
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 16, 2006 - 1:34 pm: |
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Bruce,
I do not know what channel it was, and yes he could have rabbit ears because he is in the very low rent district across the street. About four houses in the middle of the neighborhood.
Road Warrior that LM-tvx2 mti is not around anymore. I do have the para dynamics filter on there, and have ordered another to put behind the radio.
I did talk to another neighbor if I understood him right he was laying in bed, TV off, and I came thru the speaker during the nets.
Mark
CEF674 |
Cornbrown
Intermediate Member
Username: Cornbrown
Post Number: 107
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Monday, January 16, 2006 - 8:28 pm: |
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"I did talk to another neighbor if I understood him right he was laying in bed, TV off, and I came thru the speaker during the nets."
Rat.... that sounds like RFI. If you can get that line isolator you have..... installed on your tower at the antenna feed point. It might help.
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Wildrat
Advanced Member
Username: Wildrat
Post Number: 668
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 17, 2006 - 8:54 am: |
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lets stick to my TVI problem please.
Mark
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Tech808
Moderator
Username: Tech808
Post Number: 8993
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 17, 2006 - 9:15 am: |
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Copper Forum Members,
Several posts have been edited or removed to keep this Topic/Question on track.
If you have a helpful suggestion that may help Mark to solve his TVI problem then please post.
Thanks,
Lon
Tech808
CEF808
N9OSN |
Road_warrior
Senior Member
Username: Road_warrior
Post Number: 1162
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 17, 2006 - 12:46 pm: |
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Wildrat-you have both TVI and RFI issues.
Each is a different fix./ Your station ground
could be causing you problems. Yes, it is a
possibility./ Your neighbors stuff could be
lacking good filtering./ To much power will
simply overload there cheap equipment./
It could be a number of different things.
Working with your neighbors and finding out
exactly what the problems are and if the
TV has rabbit ears/ cable ect. would be a
plus for you.
Matter of fact i'm going to start a post on
a problem i'm having here right now. Maybe
it could help you too.. Good Luck! |
Hollowpoint445
Senior Member
Username: Hollowpoint445
Post Number: 1018
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 17, 2006 - 10:25 pm: |
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You said "during the nets today I had a neighbor knock on my door and moan about TVI" but you didn't say exactly what he said happens. What EXACTLY did he say the problem was? |
Kid_vicious
Senior Member
Username: Kid_vicious
Post Number: 1054
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 17, 2006 - 10:46 pm: |
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buy him a high pass filter from Rad shak in the interest of being a good neighbor, and if that doesnt solve the problem, then its probably front end overload on his TV.
is that a transistor box you are running?
a short story of my past:
when i first got into CB, i lived in a townhouse that was two stories high, and connected with six other units through the side walls.
basically one big building with six frond doors and six garage doors.
i had an antron99 up about 30 feet in the air, and only a radio. (no amp)
one day a neighbor came over to tell me that i was coming over his clock. not clock radio; CLOCK!
he was a trucker and knew it was me.
it seems my voice was vibrating the transformer in his digital alarm clock. (it would also reset when i keyed up, causing him to be late for work more than once)
i got the book on RFI from the ARRL and went about doing everything i could to solve the problem.
nothing worked!
i grounded, and filtered, and filtered some more to no avail.
one day when an electrician had come by to do some lighting repairs; my dad hit him up to check the ground of our building.
it turns out that the entire building was grounded to one piece of rebar, daisychained across our water heaters.
no wonder!
we moved soon after.
so mark, it may be something that you cant do anything about; just try to always be nice all the while never admitting anything!
my antenna had been down for a month, and my neighbors came over, positive that i was the reason their phone kept hanging up in the middle of calls.
good luck,
matt |
Wildrat
Advanced Member
Username: Wildrat
Post Number: 676
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 18, 2006 - 8:56 am: |
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I do not know what the neighbor said exactly because my wife answered the door, and she has a way of blowing things out of proportion, and then believing it's the truth. So all I really know is that it was something to do with there TV. I know there is a ground outside going to our water pipe from the street, maybe I will remove it. Maybe I will remove my equip ground also and see if that does anything. I'll keep working at it.
Road Warrior I am following your post also.
Mark
CEF674 |
Hollowpoint445
Senior Member
Username: Hollowpoint445
Post Number: 1022
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 18, 2006 - 11:55 am: |
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If you don't know what the actual problem is, how do you expect to resolve it or get help from someone else to resolve it? |
Wildrat
Advanced Member
Username: Wildrat
Post Number: 680
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 18, 2006 - 12:30 pm: |
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That's why I have been trying to catch them to ask them. I have spoke to the one neighbor and I have posted what he told me above. Maybe you missed that post. I also sense some attitude in your question, you having a bad day,or do you have a problem with me? Maybe theres a full moon.
Mark |
Road_warrior
Senior Member
Username: Road_warrior
Post Number: 1171
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 18, 2006 - 7:14 pm: |
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Man Wildrat, you live in the Lightning Capital
of the U.S. i'd probably be careful about having
correct grounding. Right now is winter here and no
lightning,so, i have time to think and research.
Gives us more details on your TVI problem
when you can...
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Wildrat
Advanced Member
Username: Wildrat
Post Number: 684
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 18, 2006 - 8:38 pm: |
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As soon as I can find the first neighbor to complain, I have already posted about the neighbor I asked. Since moving the TVI filter, I have not had any complaints, but it is the week not the weekend. Definitely not late Sunday morning. Yes the Tampa Bay area is the lightning capitol of the world, but I've seen more lightning in other places I've been. I had my last antenna (an Antron) up in the air for nearly 9 years before the wind a couple of hurricane seasons ago bent the pole in half and down came the Antron. It was grounded, the rest of the system was not. I am now wondering about the polyphasers after what a newcomer wrote (rldrake I think is the name) but then I remember what 808, 833, and others have told me as well as the polyphaser web site. It is my belief that a direct hit may take me out, hopefully without a lot of casualties. It was a concern of mine that by putting all this grounding around that I was making it very appetising to Mr. Lightning to pay me a visit, hopefully he will like them ground rods better than my equipment. HP45 forget about my comment above I was probably feeling a bit ratty and looking for trouble this AM. I know most everyone here wants to help and I appreciate that. Sometimes my mind runs into a wall that I can't breakthru for awhile till I relax a little. So anyway my other TVI filter arrives tomorrow with my D104M mics. I like these Mic's they grow on ya. I also made a 15 foot mic cord extension that is working out very well. Now I need to figure out how to do it by IR.
Mark |
Hollowpoint445
Senior Member
Username: Hollowpoint445
Post Number: 1026
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, January 19, 2006 - 6:21 am: |
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http://www.kyes.com/antenna/interference/tvibook.html |
Cornbrown
Intermediate Member
Username: Cornbrown
Post Number: 108
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, January 19, 2006 - 7:54 am: |
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There is one of your problem... That ground that is connected to the water pipe..... Think.... that water pipe feeds the whole neighborhood and you might be feeding RF through the water pipe into other peoples house. |
Chad
Advanced Member
Username: Chad
Post Number: 656
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, January 19, 2006 - 9:24 am: |
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We cannot ground to water pipes in these parts, you must use rods. Check your local code, I doubt it is propogating to thet ONE neighbor's house but it's a safety concern and we like to see you on two legs 
Chad |
Marconi
Advanced Member
Username: Marconi
Post Number: 538
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, January 19, 2006 - 10:06 am: |
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Good to see you Chad. Give Wildrat the link to your piece on baluns where we hashed it all out a while back. It had some nice pictures for him to look at, and it did work.
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Wildrat
Advanced Member
Username: Wildrat
Post Number: 685
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 19, 2006 - 10:42 am: |
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You can not ground to water pipes around here anymore either. This home was built before the new codes, this place was built back in the 50's. I will look at that page HP45 as soon as I get my lap top going again. It started with a mouse problem and now I'm having to repair windows which more than likely lead to reinstalling windows, which means I'll have to set up everything again.
Mark |
Chad
Advanced Member
Username: Chad
Post Number: 658
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, January 19, 2006 - 11:44 am: |
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The Balun solved the problem with RF in the shack but the RFI problems associated with bad audio gear persisted. The shop stereo is fixed. Upgraded cabling and proper wiring to a vintage amplifier. The computer speakers should be fixed this weekend, just lack of grounding on the equipment making noise
As for Wildrat's problem, I just have no idea. In broadcast we dealt with it all the time. Anytime you shove 1000+ watts of RF in an urban environment there's going to be problems. It does it with gear costing 10's of thousands of dollars, imagine the RF noise associated with a relatively broadband CB. Unfortunately I believe the best bet is to dial back on the juice and reduce your blanketing area, but I'm sure to those who purchase the expensive "gear" would think otherwise
But heerreeess the topic, pics can be seen in my pic page.
http://www.copperelectronics.com/cgi-bin/discus4/discus.cgi
Hope you had a great holidays, been tinkering with the vehicles and not the radio lately. The super charger is bolted on the truck and running well and the Honda is tuned nicely Still need to fine tune the truck then the rest of the work will need to wait till the weather turns nice. Then back to radios! I vascillate between hobbies
Wildrat, if you want to try a balun then youcan do the 'ol coil the coax method to see if it helps. I built mine in spare time and materials No money, and had time to kill in the shop. If you need more details let me know (as in WHAT it helped, etc).
Chad |
Hollowpoint445
Senior Member
Username: Hollowpoint445
Post Number: 1031
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, January 19, 2006 - 6:02 pm: |
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I think this is the link Chad wanted to post:
http://www.copperelectronics.com/cgi-bin/discus4/board-auth.cgi?file=/77380/78577.html
Good luck with reinstalling windows - I've never had luck with that and eventually just format and reinstall. Now I partition my hard disk and save all important data on a different partition than the OS so it's a little less painful. |
Chad
Advanced Member
Username: Chad
Post Number: 659
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, January 19, 2006 - 8:20 pm: |
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Yeah, that's the pic page, cut/copy/paste My Method did not point to the whole "blaun discussion" I'll try again in a few. Sorry. Sometimes computers get the best of us in front of everyone
Chad |
Wildrat
Advanced Member
Username: Wildrat
Post Number: 686
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 20, 2006 - 10:27 am: |
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I forgot about the laptop, I think will put a partition on here too for the data, that will make it easier for these occasions. I do that on my desktops, but I did not on the laptop, I will now, because this is about the 4 or 5 time I have had to format and reload.
Mark |
Marconi
Advanced Member
Username: Marconi
Post Number: 544
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Friday, January 20, 2006 - 11:18 am: |
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Hey Wildrat if you refomat a drive it does not matter if you have a partition or not. When you reformat I think the whole drive will be reformatted. You will then have to repartition the drive when thru. I do not believe you can save D if C goes bad and reformating is the only solution. I could be wrong though. |
Hollowpoint445
Senior Member
Username: Hollowpoint445
Post Number: 1032
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Friday, January 20, 2006 - 12:33 pm: |
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I'm glad I could remind you Wildrat. It's the only way to go.
Formatting doesn't destroy partitons, it formats them. I've run partitioned hard drives since I was running 95B and I've never looked back. It might be necessary to FDISK a drive if there is a virus you can't get rid of or errors in the master boot record, but I've never had that problem. |
Wildrat
Advanced Member
Username: Wildrat
Post Number: 688
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 20, 2006 - 2:06 pm: |
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no virus, just this laptop, I have always had desktops and I have had problems with them, but this laptop is possessed.
Mark |
Wildrat
Advanced Member
Username: Wildrat
Post Number: 691
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 20, 2006 - 8:06 pm: |
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Half my message is gone from above, I probably goofed or something. Anyway I have my second tvi filter from Copper now. I put the other tvi filter behind the box. I guess I will put this one behind the radio. I have also hooked up my Cobra 2010 base. I will be using it for side band on Sunday, might as well put it to use, I can use a smaller box with it. The man who built my big box told me not to use it on side band, he said it would burn it up. I did not ask why as the fella likes to talk, which is fine except when I'm on my cell phone. I also got a mic converter, Cobra 4 pin mic to Cobra 5 pin, it's a lot better using this on that 2010 so I can use one of the d104m mics on it. As far as computers I finally got two of them networked and I am copying my c drive over to another computer so I can format the laptop and then load everything back on it again. I guess I'll talk to some of you Sunday, take it easy till then.
Mark |
Road_warrior
Senior Member
Username: Road_warrior
Post Number: 1181
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, January 21, 2006 - 7:06 pm: |
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Well Wildrat, you will find out tomorrow during
the Cef Nets if your still wrecking havoc
on TVs...LOL
Good Luck!
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Wildrat
Advanced Member
Username: Wildrat
Post Number: 692
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, January 21, 2006 - 7:33 pm: |
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Well I have the Cobra 2010 hooked up so I can use it on SSB. I also hooked a small 2 pill up to the 2010. It has MRF492, 90 watts each so it should do a fine job on SSB. I have been using it today and the people I spoke too said it was clear so that's a good thing.
Talk to Y'all tomorrow!
Mark |
Al_lafon
Intermediate Member
Username: Al_lafon
Post Number: 173
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, January 21, 2006 - 9:41 pm: |
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Now lets See i had this family move in next to me back in the 80s next day the guy came over
complaining wildly about me taking out all his
tv channels the nite before i had been on but
had not fired up the box? So i asked what he had
for a TV antenna. He then tells me to go ---- --
----- and walks a way. So that nite band is open
i fired up on SSB and if it sounded like a storm
had let lose up front his TV Loud i mean Loudest
i've herd noise. Then came knockKnock went to the
door more ------ you know what so i asked about
the antenna. he standing looking at me a tells me
its a Midland mag mount Duh !!! I asked as in CB
mag mount HE then gives more -------- and Yes a cb mag mount With a smile i told him to remove
the ------ CB antenna and go buy a ------ TV antenna and slamed my door. THE END |
Kid_vicious
Senior Member
Username: Kid_vicious
Post Number: 1072
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, January 22, 2006 - 2:14 am: |
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wildrat, your big box is class C. not good for SSB.
heed his advice.
matt |
Wildrat
Advanced Member
Username: Wildrat
Post Number: 694
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 22, 2006 - 7:35 pm: |
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This box won't see SSB, I have another small 2 pill I will use for SSB, it has MRF492's in it so that's plenty.
Mark |
Geekster
Intermediate Member
Username: Geekster
Post Number: 171
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Monday, January 23, 2006 - 7:19 am: |
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Ahh man you should have PM'ed me before googling. I was a tech for Para Dynamics... |
Wildrat
Advanced Member
Username: Wildrat
Post Number: 703
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 23, 2006 - 2:03 pm: |
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Now how on earth was I suppose to know you were a tech for PD? Oh well, I know now.
Thanks
Mark |
