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Message |
    
Marconi
Advanced Member
Username: Marconi
Post Number: 603
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, February 23, 2006 - 2:10 pm: | 
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I am looking for someone that made a particular comment about this antenna in the past and I do not remember who made the comment. Whoever made the comment knew something about the subject in which I currently have an interest. I would like to ask a specific question.
I have to generalize in my paraphrasing the statement, but it went something like this.
"the Penerator antenna did a better job because of the raised ground plane design in the antenna."
If you have such an idea, or have made a similar statement, or know someone that did, about this antenna, I would like to ask you the following question about this idea.
Do you think this happens because when the GP is raised like this, it becomes more effective as a ground plane because more current is allowed to pass in these elements than would occur if the GP radials were positioned below the feed point?
Marconi |
Tech808
Moderator
Username: Tech808
Post Number: 9338
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, February 23, 2006 - 2:42 pm: |
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Marconi,
Here is what I found when I typed Penetrator 500 in the search box.
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2. Open Forum: Archived Messages: 2002: 02/01/2002 to 04/31/2002: Starduster - IS This a good antenna?
penetrator 500 excellant antenna.
call going say . penetrator 500 remake spain.
penetrator 500 great antenna! Just ... -- things about Penetrator 500 tends be tad
JUNK! IMHO Hy Gain Penetrator 500 Avanti Sigma /
take put . fed 1500 didnt hurt .
Matching Posts: 12, Relative Score 91%
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4. Product Reviews: Antennas: WHAT IS YOUR FAVORITE OMNI ANTENNA?
max 2000 # Hy Gain penetrator 500 # Avanti
faithful Hy-gain Penetrator 500. Shouldn't ... -T6 traded radiator Penetrator's all 6061-T6
best. Hy Gain penetrator 500 probably best ... owned best Hy Gain penetrator 500 . want cheat
great old Super Penetrator.
beats old Penetrator. After be I10K
Matching Posts: 8, Relative Score 72%
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5. Product Reviews: Antennas: Why is the old Hygain Penetrator so highly touted?
owned Penetrator 500 years ago. After
Hygain Golden Penetrator / gold anodized. ... guess take account Penetrator Sigma approx 30
know about HyGain Penetrator 500 having Ground
antennas Hygain Penetrator CLR2 any ....
golden penetrator 1975. top line ... , weight antenna. / penetrator " called top &#
Matching Posts: 6, Relative Score 65%
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10. Product Reviews: Antennas: Sirio Vector 4000 vs. Hygain 5/8 wave Penetrator
knew person Penetrator 500, god rest soul
disagree. , kept Penetrator500. point years ago ... top story section Penetrator500 12' flattop
antenna, Hygain Penetrator. Believe trying,
. good Hygain Penetrator Imax2000." find
better Hygain Penetrator. small percentage ... . good Hygain Penetrator Imax2000. lower
Matching Posts: 5, Relative Score 52%
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There is a BUNCH more but maybe you will see it above.
Hope this helps,
Lon
Tech808
CEF808
N9CEF |
Marconi
Advanced Member
Username: Marconi
Post Number: 604
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, February 23, 2006 - 8:06 pm: |
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Thanks Lon, glad to see you back and hope you are feeling fine. I have looked thru all of that before posting. I think it was either HamcBer or 833 that spoke about this and of course at my age I could be all wet too.
I was just hoping to jar someones memeory and maybe touch on an issue that maybe one of the guru's around was familiar with.
I am trying to understand how to improve current distribution in a ground plane antenna. The rule of equal and opposite does not seem to apply as I would like in our 11 meter antennas, where the available current is distributed between the radiator and the sum of currents in the symmeterical ground plane. Too much current seems to remain on the feed line and support where it probably does not belong.
I know that Paul will not be excicted to hear this, but maybe he will decide to go ahead and tell me that I am just trying to do the impossible.
Thanks. |
Marconi
Advanced Member
Username: Marconi
Post Number: 605
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Friday, February 24, 2006 - 4:10 am: |
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Lon I have searched Hamcber and I find nothing from him except a lot of good old memories from back around 2001 - 2002.
I will try Paul next, maybe something will turn up and I won't have to wake him up from his nap.
Tell him I may have old timers, but I ain't forgetten that one. |
Tech833
Moderator
Username: Tech833
Post Number: 1222
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Friday, February 24, 2006 - 10:30 am: |
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Marconi,
Sorry, I was not the person who made that comment.
The raised ground plane was simply for mechanical convenience. It makes no difference you could measure. Now, if you raised the ground planes to about 1/8 wave above the feedpoint, sure it will make a difference. Exactly what that difference is, I do not know.
Distributing current to a different point in the antenna means changing the feedpoint or the wavelength, that is all. Not magic. |
Marconi
Advanced Member
Username: Marconi
Post Number: 607
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Friday, February 24, 2006 - 5:21 pm: |
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Thank 833, another dream of mine will napping. Thanks.
I just heard so many claim how good those old antennas were and that was the one big difference, the ground plane was about 1' above the feed point. I also remember you claiming that it was probably a little stronger antenna because it was a bit more narrow banded. So if it was a bit stronger then the bandwidth may have been why. |
Tech833
Moderator
Username: Tech833
Post Number: 1225
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, February 25, 2006 - 12:59 pm: |
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'Stronger'? I am lost.
Keep in mind, during this time, ALL ground planes antennas were built this way, with the ground planes about a foot above the feedpoint. HyGain, Radio Shack, Avanti, everyone did it this way.
What made the Penetrator so special? Four 1/4 wave length ground planes, a near-full length radiator, a capacity hat, and an efficient feed system that did not distort the mail lobe.
The overall electrical length was closer to 3/4 wave, but the vertical radiator was only 20 feet tall (the rule at the time was an antenna could not extend more than 20 feet above its mounting structure). The entire antenna was a high-Q design, and of course this limits bandwidth. However, since most people were using crummy RG-8 coax back then, you would not notice that.
These days, I would put an Imax 2000 with GPK against a Penetrator any day. I'll bet the Imax would win. |
Marconi
Advanced Member
Username: Marconi
Post Number: 608
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, February 25, 2006 - 4:43 pm: |
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I went back and looked at this thread and you are right to say ('Stronger'? I am lost). It appears that I was talking about the Hygain Penetrator 500 and you were referring to the Avanti Penetrator, which I never knew existed until re-reading your post below. The only other antenna that I ever knew of that used a trombone type tuner was a Mosley Ground plane and of coures Jays copy of that.
833 words about various antennas, bandwidth, good feeder designs, and gain.
Sorry, I will have to find something on the Avanti Penetrator antenna now. That one slipped by me while I was napping I suppose. |
Tech833
Moderator
Username: Tech833
Post Number: 1226
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, February 25, 2006 - 6:32 pm: |
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No Sweat.
The Avanti Super Penetrator became the Penetrator 500 when Antenna Specialists bought out Avanti. How can you tell the difference? The Avanti has 3 sections of graduated aluminum tubing to make up each 9 foot ground plane while the Penetrator 500 uses only two pieces of tubing.
Everyone regards the original Avanti made Super Penetrator as the best of the two. Why? I do not know. |
Wheelco505
Junior Member
Username: Wheelco505
Post Number: 34
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, February 26, 2006 - 11:31 am: |
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i tell you what tech 833, in wind storm of 75-80 mile -an-hour wind,you take the Imax and i'll take the penetrator and in 12 hours,if it's over we'll see who calls who first.been there done that(wind that is)the only thing i lost was the ground wires(they got ripped out of the ground)the mast was swinging in the breeze along with the antenna,but after it was over, the antenna was still intact.the surounding big sticks in the hood were basicly history.and the imax is much more flimsey the big sticks of old 505 |
Tech833
Moderator
Username: Tech833
Post Number: 1227
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, February 26, 2006 - 4:40 pm: |
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Well.... If wind is a concern, then you go ahead and take your Penetrator and I will take a Top One and after 100 MPH winds, we'll see who is still on the air! HA ha ha!!!
Actually, I have a Top One that has been up in 100 MPH+ winds, and I had that Imax 2000 (the one that I sent to Lon, which later got blown apart by lightning) and it survived 80 MPH winds.
You can really stiffen up an aluminum antenna with a can or two of expando-foam. |
Wheelco505
Junior Member
Username: Wheelco505
Post Number: 35
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Monday, February 27, 2006 - 12:32 am: |
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oh!oh! so you know that trick too?you are going to mess around and tell your age!!yeah there is nothing bad that i can say about the top one,for what it is,it does it's job.you just have to play around with the height factor(test different heights)for skip talking.but for tri-city talking,it's great!! and easy on the swr's 505 |
Road_warrior
Senior Member
Username: Road_warrior
Post Number: 1252
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Monday, February 27, 2006 - 4:57 pm: |
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We have had alot of high winds around here
lately. Couple of my friends R.S. 1 1/4" mast
pipes got bent, antennas are ok though.
Mast pipe doesn't seem as good as it once
was. I used 1 5/8" thick walled Galvanized
pipe for my antenna on my tower. That shouldn't
bend...LOL |
Kid_vicious
Senior Member
Username: Kid_vicious
Post Number: 1235
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Monday, February 27, 2006 - 11:29 pm: |
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i can tell you for sure, that the yellowish rad shak masts were thicker walled than the grey ones they now sell.
matt |
Road_kill_radio
New member
Username: Road_kill_radio
Post Number: 1
Registered: 7-2011
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2011 - 8:05 pm: |
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Neither Avanti nor Antenna Specialists ever produced the Penetrator, it was produced & marketed solely by Hy-gain and was the next one up (top of the line) from the CLR-2(which was 20' tall).
The Penetrator was a 22' 9.5" tall .64 tuned for 27.000 out of the box, and had four 8' 9" counterpoise/ ground plane radials & four 10" top hat radials. |
