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Message |
    
Knappy
New member
Username: Knappy
Post Number: 2
Registered: 3-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, April 27, 2006 - 12:29 pm: | 
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when my truck is not running but i have the accessories turned on, or if the truck is running i don't have full TX power any more, but it used to be full all the time. what can i do to fix this problem? |
Kid_vicious
Senior Member
Username: Kid_vicious
Post Number: 1485
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Friday, April 28, 2006 - 12:31 am: |
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just a maybe, but your alternator could be on its way out, and could be weakening your battery to the point where it wont charge fully anymore.
(this happens alot)
if you replace one; replace both, otherwise you'll be chasing your tail.
matt |
Knappy
New member
Username: Knappy
Post Number: 3
Registered: 3-2006
| | Posted on Friday, April 28, 2006 - 9:08 am: |
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but when i move the plug at the end of the mic the TX will increase a bit but it won't stay full. |
Hotwire
Senior Member
Username: Hotwire
Post Number: 1251
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, April 29, 2006 - 12:50 pm: |
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You must be looking at your radios meter to see your power right? Try a watt meter instead. Check your swr too. If I wiggled the mic plug on my radio and it made any changes to my output or meter the first thing I would do is clean the plug of any debris put it back on tight and try it. If that does'nt work then take the mic plug apart and check for broken solder connections.73 |
Knappy
New member
Username: Knappy
Post Number: 4
Registered: 3-2006
| | Posted on Monday, May 01, 2006 - 12:15 pm: |
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i have cleaned the plug and i have checked the plug for broken solder connections. what else can i do? |
Kid_vicious
Senior Member
Username: Kid_vicious
Post Number: 1502
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Monday, May 01, 2006 - 10:13 pm: |
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where are you getting the radios power from?
describe your setup in detail.
matt |
Knappy
New member
Username: Knappy
Post Number: 5
Registered: 3-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 02, 2006 - 8:48 am: |
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from the fuse panel in my truck, why? |
Kid_vicious
Senior Member
Username: Kid_vicious
Post Number: 1504
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 02, 2006 - 11:08 pm: |
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there are so many variables at work here, it would help to know what the details of the setup are.
what kind of truck?
what kind of radio?
linear?
what antenna?
anything else inline?
the things that seem unimportant or incidental to you, may be the exact things we need to know to help.
but right off hand i'd say, try powering the radio right off the battery. (fused of course)
and the ground of the radio should be run to the battery, or run a very short distance to a known good chassis ground.
do you own a SWR/watt meter?
matt |
Knappy
New member
Username: Knappy
Post Number: 6
Registered: 3-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 03, 2006 - 12:25 pm: |
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1988 Ford Ranger, Cobra 18 WX ST II, magnet mount antenna but switching to a Wilson Silver Load but i haven't switched it yet because i have to get some coax cable, no linear, nothing else in line. no i don't own a SWR/watt meter why? |
Kid_vicious
Senior Member
Username: Kid_vicious
Post Number: 1509
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 03, 2006 - 7:59 pm: |
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you need an SWR meter to tune your antenna.
this is probably not your problem, but if you want your radio to get out; you need a tuned antenna system. otherwise, most of the wattage that the radio puts out will be lost as heat, and isnt being put out into the air.
after re-reading your original post; im really thinking that it has to do with where the radio is getting power and ground from.
try disconnecting the ground wire from wherever its hooked to, and connect it to a screw or bolt that goes DIRECTLY to chassis metal.
and you should be powering the radio right from the battery.
without a watt meter, you cant tell if your output power is varying or not.
do not trust the radio's meter.
also, if the antenna you are using is a cheap one, it could be causing the misleading meter readings.
my real advice to you is to search around this forum for a few hours using key word searches like, "mobile intstallation", or "how to tune a mobile antenna", etc.
you will find a wealth of info here that just may lead you down the right path to fix your problem.
PS- if you key the mic, and then touch your other hand to a metal part of the radio, does the meter move around?
hope this helps,
matt |
Allan
Intermediate Member
Username: Allan
Post Number: 114
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 03, 2006 - 10:37 pm: |
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I'm with Kid on his first post. First find a volt meter (beg, borrow, or you know) somewhere and find out what the charge system is doing. One or two volt drop can and will make a difference in output. Next, and this is mui importante, a SWR\watt meter. That should be the next on any list of purchases when buying a radio, hi dollar or not. Can't install without one and expect good results... The quess-a-mentation method is asking for problems...Just too many variables.  |
Knappy
New member
Username: Knappy
Post Number: 7
Registered: 3-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, May 04, 2006 - 12:17 pm: |
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ok, but somebody told me that if i wire the radio right to the battery that would give me full TX, will that really work? |
Nobodyknows
Intermediate Member
Username: Nobodyknows
Post Number: 133
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, May 04, 2006 - 3:25 pm: |
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When you wire the radio directly to the battery, the radio wont be at the mercy of your trucks wiring harness for power. It'll get 100% all the power it could ever need. Be sure to get thicker wire than what the CB's cord is to make the distance! It would be like using thin speaker wire as an extension cord in your house. Bad idea, thicker is better and use stranded wire and a fuse holder at the + battery terminal.
Now, if you wiggle the mic cord and the TX level goes up or down this is saying we have a bad mic, mic cord, weak solder at the plug. It's pretty common to come across a partially broken wire within an inch or 2 of the mic plug.
It may also mean you're wiggling the radio as you're doing that and it's making a better intermittant ground.
On all of my installations i've went right to the source for power and well, it's just the best way for performance. |
Kid_vicious
Senior Member
Username: Kid_vicious
Post Number: 1516
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, May 04, 2006 - 11:29 pm: |
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nobodyknows is on track!
if the radio is not new, and has been rattling around in a mobile environment before; there could be issues with wires not making good contact and broken wires in the mic cord.
best way to eliminate something as the culprit is to sub it out for a known good part.
matt |
Knappy
New member
Username: Knappy
Post Number: 8
Registered: 3-2006
| | Posted on Friday, May 05, 2006 - 12:18 pm: |
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ok but i have tried 2 other mics that i have and when i wiggle the plug on them the TX won't go up, so is it just a power issue? And if i do wire it to the battery is 4 gauge speaker wire ok to use or should i use different wire? |
Nobodyknows
Intermediate Member
Username: Nobodyknows
Post Number: 136
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, May 06, 2006 - 9:18 am: |
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I think 4 guage is overkill just to power a cb. 10 guage is whats running to my mobile amp, so 12 or 14 guage (stranded) is plenty for your cb. Home Depot has it on spools (by the foot) you're looking at about 3 dollars for the wire and maybe 3 bucks for the fuse holder. Try the new wire and one of your better working mics and lets go from there. |
Knappy
New member
Username: Knappy
Post Number: 9
Registered: 3-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, May 06, 2006 - 10:03 am: |
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ok but the other 2 mics that i tried were a few months old and the TX didn't go up, but i have 3 wires in the back of my cb a ground, a power, and another wire that i really don't know what it is for but that one and the power both have fuseson themm so how would i wire them to the battery? |
Hotwire
Senior Member
Username: Hotwire
Post Number: 1310
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, May 06, 2006 - 11:00 am: |
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OK, He must have one of the radios like a Cobra 19. 3 wires out the back right?
Black- Wire to battery
Red- wire to battery
Orange- wire to hot fuse panel. Controls the radio with the car ignition. In case you forget to turn the radio off. This way your battery won't die.
I sold a radio to a friend like this. He had trouble installing it. If both red and orange do not have positive going to them you will have problems. |
Nobodyknows
Intermediate Member
Username: Nobodyknows
Post Number: 137
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, May 06, 2006 - 11:45 am: |
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Ok after looking around the web awhile.. (i didn't know cobra had a 3 wire hook up)
The red wire is the radios main power wire and would go to the battery Pos. side,
Now if i understand this right, the orange wire would go to the accessory side of your fuse box, It's suposed to be able to switch the radio off when you turn the key off. Yes you could just twist those two, (red and orange) together and run it to the battery + side. It would make the radio turn on and off using the knob on the radio from now on. Also run the black lead to the Neg side of the battery.
As for the mic's.. If you can wiggle the cord or plug and the radio fluctiuates at all then we're seeing a short in the wire or plug end. I'd put that mic aside and go with one that works solid and works right.
A mic can in no way make your power level in a radio go up or down unless it's shorting out. Different mics may sound better or sound different but not raise or lower the TX power level of the radio.
You kinda need to let the fluctuating mic go bud. It's making you think that it's working better but it's not helping you at all. |
Kid_vicious
Senior Member
Username: Kid_vicious
Post Number: 1525
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, May 06, 2006 - 11:05 pm: |
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not sure about the extra wire. the other guys' advice seems very sound.
you could use 4 ga. its just that you dont have to.
a couple of things:
you say, " but when i move the plug at the end of the mic the TX will increase a bit but it won't stay full".
then you say that the other mics you try dont do this.
what you are noticing with the first mic, is the fact that a loose connection near the plug is going to crackle and pop while being manipulated.
you wont hear the crackles and pops because your mic is keyed. the others on the channel WILL hear them.
those pops and crackles are causing the meter on the radio to rise and fall in the exact same way that talking into the mic would.
you have a bad mic.
use one of the other ones.
as you say "ahh" into the good mic, watch the meter. does it move when you talk much in the same way that it did when you were fiddling with the original mic?
you have a bad mic.
get rid of it.
as for the power output not being full at certain times.
that was the mic fooling you if you are talking about the meter jumping around.
if you are saying that the meter used to move over to a certain spot on the meter, and now it doesnt go over that far anymore. we're talking steady carrier, not jumping around.
well, transmitting into an unmatched antenna (the SWR meter is what you use to match the antenna) will eventually weaken, and or blow the final and driver of the radio.
the weaker they are, the less the needle moves over when keying.
what kind of mag mount antenna?
where is it mounted?
matt |
Knappy
Junior Member
Username: Knappy
Post Number: 10
Registered: 3-2006
| | Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 9:00 am: |
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i don't know what kind of mag mount antenna it is and it is on the roof of my truck. so you think i should get rid of the bad mic? |
Kid_vicious
Senior Member
Username: Kid_vicious
Post Number: 1540
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 7:12 pm: |
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yeah, i dont mean throw it in the trash, i dont recommend ending the life of any radio gear.
i just mean its time to start your radio junk box.
use a big one, as your junk collection will grow exponentially the longer you are in this hobby/ addiciton.
if there is no brand name on the antenna, then i think you should pursue getting another as you stated in an earlier post.
my recommendation for your situation would be the wilson 1000 magnet mount.
not the lil wil, the 1000.
when you buy this antenna (from copper of course, you wont beat their price anyway) also buy an SWR/watt meter. check around the forum for recommendations on which one to get.
when you get your new stuff, post here and we'll walk you through the install.
BTW, on the roof of the truck is the best place for the antenna.
just make sure you're not kinking the cable coming in the door or wherever it enters the vehicle at.
its not like regular wire, where it doesnt matter how much you kink it, as long as you dont puncture the insulation.
kinking coaxial cable is a big no no.
good luck,
matt |
Knappy
Junior Member
Username: Knappy
Post Number: 11
Registered: 3-2006
| | Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 8:03 pm: |
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ok but the other antenna i have is a Wilson Silver Load but i just need coaxial cable, and if i do get a SWR meter what will that do for me? |
Kid_vicious
Senior Member
Username: Kid_vicious
Post Number: 1542
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 10:25 pm: |
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ok, you really need to do some searching on the forum. i will try to give you some basics, but i have typed this stuff so much my hands could curl up.
look to the left, click on search, and do the keyword search for things like, "SWR" or "what is SWR" or "mobile antenna installation".
plan to spend a couple of hours reading.
get some coffee, and get ready to have your mind blown as to how many different things there are to consider in a mobile install.
and i'll tell you right now, the things that are being discussed are not overkill nitpicking, they are the things that need to be done if you actually want to use your CB.
ok, SWR stands for "standing wave ratio".
basically that is the ratio of watts going out of the radio into the antenna, vs. the watts going back into the radio.
what?! you say? how and why would any wattage be coming back into the radio.
its like this. CB radios operate at 26.965mhz(ch.1) to 27.405mhz(ch.40)
your car stereo operates at 88.000mhz to 108.000mhz to give you some perspective.
here's a rule: as frequency goes up, wavelength goes down, and vice versa.
by wavelength i mean the distance from the bottom to the top of one radio wave.
so you can see that the radio waves coming out of your CB radio are considerably longer than the ones coming out of your favorite FM broadcast station.
one wavelength at CB freqs (27mhz) is approx. 34 feet long.
you are just going to have to trust me for now that a 1/4 wavelength antenna is the best and most efficient antenna for a mobile.
what is 1/4 of 34 feet?
102"
ever heard of a 102" whip antenna. you most likely have seen them as you cant very well miss them.
just know that any mobile antenna that is shorter than 102" is a compromise of some sort.
(no matter what wilson claims on their site, the silver load is nowhere near as good as a 102" whip)
so we can say that the 102" whip is "resonant" at 27 mhz, which means that it will put more of the signal out "on the air" and less reflected back at the radio.
so what happens if you try to transmit a 27mhz signal into, say, a spagetti noodle?
pretty much all of the power will be reflected back into the radio, and will burn it up eventually. (this is why you should not key your mic without an antenna attatched)
well, your radio is looking for a certain "impedance". for CB radios, that impedance is 50ohms.
if you have an antenna that is 50ohms, and coaxial cable that is 50 ohms, then you will have 100% signal transfer.
in reality this is not possible and we all strive for as close as we can get.
the radio and the coax are not adjustable, so the antenna is the only place we can make any adjustments to get closer to that perfect 50ohm chain.
thats why your silver load has an adjustable tip.
the SWR meter's job is to provide a visual indication of how much signal is getting out vs. how much is coming back in.
a ratio of 1 to 1 is perfect, and unobtainable.
a ratio of 3 to 1 means that something is very wrong with your antenna system.
most operators strive for a 1.1 to 1 "match" and settle for 1.5 to 1 if it wont get any better.
i am perfectly happy with an SWR of 1.5 to 1.
without one, you have no idea how much of your CB's 4 watts is getting out.
you might be transmitting 1 watt and reflecting 3 back into the radio. not good.
well, thats it for now,
one more thing:
anyone that tries to get you to cut your coax to try to tune the antenna doesnt know what they are doing. the only way to tune an antenna is by manipulating the actual antenna.
good luck,
matt |
Nobodyknows
Intermediate Member
Username: Nobodyknows
Post Number: 140
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 12:16 am: |
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Hey knappy, Matt above just saved you several hours of reading.
That wilson silver load isn't too bad an antenna to use. I have a Wilson silverload on a spring mount on the roof of my Blazer. It talks better than i thought it would so i switched out my 102 steel whip for the silverload. Mainly because i got tired of twanging every tree limb in the city.
Ok, SWR's are a CB'ers friend or enemy. Sometimes an install will get you low SWR's like 1.2 Thats when it's your friend. Some installs your swr will be over 1.5 Then it's your enemy. Thats a mismatch and hurts your radios output power. You can look @ copperelectronics.com and click on meters and see what swr meter is in your budget. Even it you go with a cheap one you still have to have it, and a 3 foot coax jumper cable. Also premade at copper. Well, everything you need to get that silverload mounted and new coax and all is here. They have new stock mics too for 5 bucks! hint hint Hey and Coppers shipping is FAST too!
Oh and when you adjust the tip of that silverload you can get a very low swr! And I've been told to just tape up that ground wire coming from the silverload, I had to ask the guys here what that extra wire was for. They were right, tape it up good then do your swr check. |
Knappy
Junior Member
Username: Knappy
Post Number: 12
Registered: 3-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 10:03 am: |
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ok i think i will get a meter, and you think i should get a stock mic or just use one of the ones i have. |
Kid_vicious
Senior Member
Username: Kid_vicious
Post Number: 1545
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 5:04 pm: |
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if the mics you are using look old and or dirty, yeah a new mic is nice.
also, copper will wire it for your radio if you tell them which radio you have. minimal charge, and worth it.
i would say for peace of mind, get one.
also, if you will detail for us how you plan to mount your new antenna, we can make some recommendations as to products that would work the best for you.
just a note: none of us here work for copper. we are just long time satisfied customers.
i myself have been a customer for over 15 years.
we dont get anything but good karma for recommending copper.
good luck,
matt |
Nobodyknows
Intermediate Member
Username: Nobodyknows
Post Number: 141
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 8:14 pm: |
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haha i probably sounded like i was in the sales dept in my last one. No, none of here works for Copper and like Matt said, we're just satisfied customers. My first purchase @ copperelectronics.com was about 10 years ago? ish, i dont remember. Radios, antennas.. misc stuff over the years. What you do is find something on coppers site, then google search the exact item and ( TRY) to find it cheaper from a reputable store. You wont have much luck finding cheaper but you will find dozens of places that charge more (alot more)and you may get the stuff eventually.
Infact, I have a order on it's way from here now. (Hurry up UPS!!)
If you want to go in depth on what your trying to hook up and where you plan on hooking it up, you'll get lots of good advice here. |
Knappy
Junior Member
Username: Knappy
Post Number: 13
Registered: 3-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 9:58 am: |
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well my antenna is mounted to the front of my bed by the cab, why? and if i wire the radio to the battery should i hook up a noise resister or not? |
Kid_vicious
Senior Member
Username: Kid_vicious
Post Number: 1554
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 7:59 pm: |
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need some details here knappy.
what antenna is mounted near the cab on the bed?
the silver load or the mag mount?
yes, run a noise filter, but not if its rated for less than 5 amps.
i wont use one rated for less than 20 amps because i believe the quality to be superior.
ok, im going to assume that you meant that the silver load is mounted near the cab on the side rail of the bed.
this is bad.
you have to understand that looks and performance are at odds with eachother when it comes to antennas.
for them to work well, they have to be big, and mounted way up high on the vehicle.
exactly what you are trying to stay away from.
if looks werent an issue, everyone would run a 102" whip bolted to the top of their roofs.
but we like sleek lines, and smooth looks.
well, physics doesnt provide for looks, it only provides for performance.
you see, only the portion of the antenna that is above the roof line will be putting out a signal.
the rest of the signal is being absorbed by the metal of the cab.
so with the silver load, im guessing that only a few inches are sticking up past the roof line.
i bet you thought that was great huh. "i can put a CB antenna here, and it will only stick up a couple of inches!"
if looks are what's important to you, then we should just stop right here, because there is no need to get an SWR meter or anything else because no matter how hard you try, you are not going to have a good performing antenna.
just so you know the scope of the differences im referring to:
with your antenna mounted there, you may be able to get out a couple to a few miles.
if it were mounted properly to the roof top, you would be able to get out 10-20 miles, maybe even further depending on terrain.
so you see, if the radio is just a toy to have like a radar detector, then just leave it the way it is and be happy.
if, however, you want to use the thing with any degree of success, you need to make some decisions about what your priorities are.
ive said it before, and i'll say it again:
"a mobile install is nothing but a series of compromises"
good luck, we're here to help in any way we can,
matt |
Knappy
Junior Member
Username: Knappy
Post Number: 14
Registered: 3-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 12:20 pm: |
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yes the silver load is on the bed by the cab, but that is the only place that i could find that i could put it because i can't mount it to the mirrors on my truck because they are plastic and nothing can be mounted to them. but the whole antenna isn't behind the cab, because the back of the cab goes up on an angle so at least half if not more of the antennat is showing. |
Kid_vicious
Senior Member
Username: Kid_vicious
Post Number: 1564
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 6:14 pm: |
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anything within a four foot radius is going to have a noticable detrimental effect on the antennas radiation.
anything within a one foot radius is going to basically absorb the signal and cancel it.
wishful thinking and i like your optimism, but sorry, no dice.
if you must use that antenna, you can try mounting it to the rear corner of the bed where its more out in the open.
thats at least something.
just need a longer piece of coax.
make sure you scrape away the paint anywhere the mount is bolted or attatched to the vehicle body.
try and describe that mag mount you have to me.
how long?
how big around at the bottom?
what color?
any numbers or letters on it?
im thinking that if its a halfway decent antenna, than simply sticking this on the roof of the truck would be the way to go.
matt |
Knappy
Junior Member
Username: Knappy
Post Number: 15
Registered: 3-2006
| | Posted on Friday, May 12, 2006 - 9:06 am: |
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there are no letters on the mag mount, the base is white, there was a 3ft antenna on it but i switched it out for a 4ft antenna, and the base is about 3in around. |
Kid_vicious
Senior Member
Username: Kid_vicious
Post Number: 1575
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, May 14, 2006 - 2:25 am: |
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you cant really swap out the whips.
see, there is a coil of wire in the base of that antenna that "electrically" lengthens the antenna to the equivilent of a 102" whip.
that coil is matched to the whip that came with the antenna.
longer is not necessarily better in this case.
anyway, sounds like a cheapie.
really, if you were willing to make a 60 dollar investment, you could buy a Wilson 1000 magnet mount from copper, and all your problems would be solved.
they work great!
good luck,
matt |
Knappy
Junior Member
Username: Knappy
Post Number: 16
Registered: 3-2006
| | Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 9:00 am: |
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well on the top of the base where the whip is there is an allen screw that you can loosen and take the whip out, so i switched it out for a longer whip. and i will give it a thought about getting the Wilson mag mount. |
Nobodyknows
Intermediate Member
Username: Nobodyknows
Post Number: 144
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 10:38 pm: |
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Knappy, man you cant swap that whip out for a longer one, Like matt said... It's length is matched to the wrapped coil inside the base.
You really need to make your first purchase to be a swr meter and check them and set them before you smoke that radio.
The most important part of a CB set up is the antenna you choose, A cheapo or a mismatched SWR wont make it talk or hear very far. |
Kid_vicious
Senior Member
Username: Kid_vicious
Post Number: 1604
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 16, 2006 - 12:16 am: |
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the allen screw is there to allow for small adjustment of the original whip when adjusting your SWR.
it is usually checked in 1/4" increments.
it will work better with the three foot whip on it.
i realize that some of the things we are saying to you seem to defy logic, but unless you want to do all the reading yourself; you're just going to have to trust that we want you to succeed, and have been where you are at.
some people decide that CB is worth 40.00 to them and not a penny more.
thats cool, although i dont think ive ever talked to one of them on the radio.
matt |
Knappy
Junior Member
Username: Knappy
Post Number: 17
Registered: 3-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 16, 2006 - 12:16 pm: |
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so i should replace the 3ft whip or relocate the Wilson, wire the radio to the battery and the fuse panel, get a meter, and replace the mic? |
Nobodyknows
Intermediate Member
Username: Nobodyknows
Post Number: 145
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 16, 2006 - 4:31 pm: |
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You should ditch the 3 foot antenna that has the wrong length stinger on it. That style of antenna has always stunk anyway. IMO...
What I would do in your shoes with what you have is this.
I'd give the silverload wilson a try where you have it to see if it's sucking or works alright for your needs.
You really should buy a SWR meter so you wont smoke the radio. OR, drive to a CB shop and have them check/set your swr. Maybe a fee for setting but around here they say on the CB that they check em for free.
The mic? If it's fluxuating while wiggling the cord or plug when you key up and arent talking, (dead keying) then it will just get worse over time and usage. Yes, replace it now.
Yes, wire the radio to the battery with a fuse holder right at the + of the battery.
If you dont give-a-dern about smoking that radio or don't care about how well it transmits or recieves, then dont check/set the swr. It's pretty much just that simple.
The choice is completely yours on how much time, effort and money you're willing to put into this project.
Most of us that have the radio bug in us have spent a thousand to several thousands of dollars (or more for some here) on CB's mobile and base, Antennas, Meters, Power Supplys, Coax, Amps, Microphones, Push up poles or Towers, Misc parts and connectors.
CB stands for "constantly buying" |
The_bandit
Junior Member
Username: The_bandit
Post Number: 23
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 17, 2006 - 3:38 am: |
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Knappy, you need to get rid of the magnet mount antenna... You replaced the whip with one of a longer length.. that changed the area of lowest SWR to a frequency MUCH lower than what your radio is operating at.
I would go with the Silver Load Wilson and 18 feet of RG8X coax... while you're buying Coax, purchase an SWR meter.. even a cheap one will probably do for you.
As for your Cobra 18WXSTII that radio doesn't draw more than 3 amps max, so wiring directly to the battery would be overkill but it is still what I would recommend.
When you get your SWR meter, you'll hook it between the radio and the antenna. It should have the connections labeled... You'll need to go to channel 1 and set the meter to FWD or CAL (they're all labeled differently) and then key your radio and turn the knob until the needle on the meter lines up with the cal mark. Unkey your radio, set the meter to REF or SWR and key your radio.. record or remember the reading. Repeat the process on channel 40. If the reading from channel 1 is lower than channel 40 you'll need to move the stinger on the antenna DOWN about 1/8" and try again. If the reading on Channel 1 is Higher than channel 40 you'll need to move the stinger UP... Keep checking until Channel 1 and Channel 40 are roughly the same reading (Hopefully below 1.5 definitely below 3.0) When they're close to being matched, check channel 20 and it should be the lowest reading of all. As long as your SWR is below a 3 you can talk on your antenna... The lower the reading the better match you have.. Personally I don't talk on anything above a 1.8 but that's just me.
I have found with most Wilson Silver Loads, that the lowest reading occurs when you take the stinger completely out of the antenna but that may or may not be the case when you start testing yours.
Also, the wison silver loads have a tag line coming from the antenna with a ring connector on it.. that is a false ground that ONLY needs to be connected if your antenna mount is not grounded to your vehicle.. the only time I've ever used this is when mounting it on a fiberglass semi truck. If you use bolts and mounting hardware to mount the bracket to your Ford pickup you probably won't need to use the false ground lead |
Kid_vicious
Senior Member
Username: Kid_vicious
Post Number: 1616
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 16, 2006 - 8:20 pm: |
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nobadyknows, that was funny!
"constantly buying"
i would tell my fiance' that one, but for some reason she doesnt find that stuff funny!
knappy,
sounds to me like you want to give this a real shot!
first thing's first. i know it may seem like you can go to rad shak, or the local truck stop and get the same things that we are talking about here, but those guys make their living on people not knowing about a place like copper electronics.
just be sure to do a price comparison before you buy locally.
you can get a decent SWR meter at rad shak for about 30-40 dollars.
i have one, and i think it works fine.
you will have to buy a jumper cable with it, and getting a 6 foot jumper may make it easier for you to manuver, but dont go any longer than 6 feet for the jumper.
you can get this at rad shak too, and it will work fine, although if you're willing to wait, coppers are higher quality.
do you need to buy a mic, or do you have some spares?
as for the antenna, i agree, just try it where it is and see what the SWR is, if its in the good range, just leave it until you are ready to make your next investment.
here is how to check your SWR.
i am going to assume that you got the RS meter, although they are all very similar in operation.
1.connect jumper cable to back of SWR meter where it says, "transmitter" or "xmitter" or "radio" etc...
2. connect other end of this jumper to the antenna socket on the back of your CB radio.
3. connect antenna coax to back of SWr meter where it says, "antenna" or "ant"...
4. turn on radio and set to ch. 20.
there will be a switch on the SWR meter that says:
POWER/SWR/CAL. (CAL stands for calibration)
switch this switch to CAL.
5. key the microphone without making any noise, and adjust the knob on the SWR meter until the needle sits exactly on the mark labled CAL.
6. unkey the mic. switch the switch on the SWR meter to SWR, and key the mic again (be quiet).
looking at the SWR meter; you will either see it barely move from the left to the right, or you will see it move quite far over to the right.
we want it to barely move over. no movement would be perfect, but thats impossible.
ok, if you'll look at the meter you will see that the top row of numbers goes something like this:
1 1.5 2 3 and then it turns red all the way to the CAL mark on the right hand side of the meter.
where did your needle move to? write this number down.
if it was below 2, we are doing very well.
if its between 2 and 3, then we are still ok, but not as good as we could be.
if its is 3 or over, then we might just have an antenna problem because of its location on the vehicle.
7. now go to ch.1 on your CB.
switch the SWR meter to CAL and key the mic.
adjust the knob on the SWR meter until the needle is back on the CAL mark again.
8. unkey the mic and switch the SWR meter over to SWR.
9.key the mic and look at the needle movement on the SWR meter.
write down this number.
10. reapeat steps 7, 8, and 9 but this time do it on ch.40.
write this number down.
ok, now you should have three numbers to calculate your SWR "curve".
one each for ch. 1,20, and 40.
these numbers will tell us whether to make the antenna shorter or longer.
on your silverload, i believe this equates to tightening and loosening the top adjustment screw.
looser is longer etc...
so here's an example:
on ch.1 your reading was just above 2.
on ch. 20 your reading was 1.5
on ch. 40 your reading was almost 3.
this means that your SWR is higher on the higher freqs. and the antenna needs to be shortened.
(the whys and whats on this are good reading, but for now, just trust me)
tighten the adjustment screw on the antenna a few turns and do steps 4-10 over again, just like you did the first time.
(you must re-calibrate the SWR meter every time you change channels for an accurate reading.)
lets say that now your numbers are like this:
ch.1 is almost 3
ch. 20 is 1.5
ch.40 is just over 2.
this means you have adjusted too far and should loosen the screw by about half what you tightened it by.
when you get the readings even on ch. 1 and 40, then you are done.
give this a shot and post your results.
good luck,
matt |
Knappy
Junior Member
Username: Knappy
Post Number: 18
Registered: 3-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 17, 2006 - 9:46 am: |
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ok so would rad shak have good meters or should i go to the truck stop? |
Nobodyknows
Intermediate Member
Username: Nobodyknows
Post Number: 146
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 17, 2006 - 11:45 am: |
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Rad Shack has good swr meters. I can't say anything negative about them. I just checked them out online and it looks like a good meter.. for whatever reason it doesn't look like copper has any inexpensive meters(under $40.)in stock except for one. That one is one that i wouldnt reccomend because the slider calibrator knob gave out pretty easily on the one i had. |
Kid_vicious
Senior Member
Username: Kid_vicious
Post Number: 1624
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 17, 2006 - 5:11 pm: |
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the rad shack meter is just fine.
you never know what kind of quality the truck stop is selling.
if you do go there, tell us the brands they sell.
matt |
Knappy
Junior Member
Username: Knappy
Post Number: 19
Registered: 3-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 17, 2006 - 7:41 pm: |
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ok but i don't know when i will be getting to a truck stop any time soon but if i do i will tell you the brands they have, and a rad shak meter would be good enough for what i need? |
Kid_vicious
Senior Member
Username: Kid_vicious
Post Number: 1634
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, May 18, 2006 - 5:24 pm: |
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yes. |
Knappy
Junior Member
Username: Knappy
Post Number: 20
Registered: 3-2006
| | Posted on Friday, May 19, 2006 - 8:41 am: |
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ok i think i will go and take a look at the meters at |
Knappy
Junior Member
Username: Knappy
Post Number: 21
Registered: 3-2006
| | Posted on Friday, June 02, 2006 - 1:17 pm: |
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well i still haven't gone to look at the meters but now when ever i turn the radio on i still don't have full TX, but when i go to channel 40 and yell into the mic and then i go to channel 1 and yell into the mic, i have full TX so is my radio messed up, and i tried wireing the positive and negative wires to the battery and that didn't help at all. |
Kid_vicious
Senior Member
Username: Kid_vicious
Post Number: 1750
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, June 03, 2006 - 9:26 pm: |
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maybe you could give some in depth details as to what you mean by "full TX".
i think we might have a misunderstanding of what the radio is supposed to look like when transmitting.
describe what the meter looks, and acts like when you transmit.
matt |
Knappy
Junior Member
Username: Knappy
Post Number: 22
Registered: 3-2006
| | Posted on Monday, June 05, 2006 - 12:20 pm: |
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this is what it looks like the bar that is next to the channel display is the RX/TX meter and the red bar at the end isn't ever full on my radio anymore.
 |
Kid_vicious
Senior Member
Username: Kid_vicious
Post Number: 1758
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Monday, June 05, 2006 - 6:35 pm: |
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knappy,
i dont know where you got the impression that the meter is supposed to move all the way over into the red when you transmit, but it is NOT.
if your meter was going all the way into the red before, it was telling you that you DEFINITELY have an antenna problem, and are hurting the radio by operating it in that condition.
what has happened is that by continuing to operate your radio with a very high SWR, you have weakened the driver and/or final amplifier transistors inside the radio, and they are on their way out.
its true, your radio is not putting out as much wattage as it was before, but it has NOTHING to do with the mic.
its the antenna! and at this point, the radio is already damaged, and fixing the antenna wont fix it.
there are internal components that need to be changed, and unless that radio has sentimental value to you, its going to be cheaper to buy a new one.
and if you do buy a new one; DO NOT transmit with it until you have purchased an SWR meter and made sure that the SWR is below 2.0 to 1 on all channels.
you need a new setup my friend.
the good news is you are in the best place to find out exactly what to get, without spending more than you have to.
i bet you could get a great radio and antenna from copper for less than 150.00.
and it would work good!
good luck in whatever you decide to do,
matt |
Knappy
Junior Member
Username: Knappy
Post Number: 22
Registered: 3-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 06, 2006 - 12:17 pm: |
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ok but why did the meter go down after a while? and when i first hooked up the radio a guy in Milford could here me fine and after the TX went down he couldn't here me anymore. |
Kid_vicious
Senior Member
Username: Kid_vicious
Post Number: 1773
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 06, 2006 - 10:46 pm: |
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because of exactly what i said.
the high SWR of your antenna has weakened the output of the radio. meaning that it is putting out less watts than it was before.
probably less than 1/2 a watt is my guess.
less watts out= less deflection of the meter.
knappy, i mean no offense, so please dont take it that way, but i have provided you with a bunch of information already and it seems that you are either not reading through the posts long enough to actually understand what i am saying, or you are just hoping that there is a magic button to push that will make all your radio problems go away.
there is no such thing.
read through all of these posts again, and very thoroughly.
if your goal is to get the radio and antenna to work without spending a dime, then you should probably just sell it.
just like anything else, you get out of it what you put into it.
i think you can see that i am honestly trying to help you here, and not condescending to you, but there is only so much i can suggest, and the next step is up to you.
good luck,
matt |
Knappy
Junior Member
Username: Knappy
Post Number: 23
Registered: 3-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2006 - 12:15 pm: |
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ok i will, so i guess the mag mount that i have messed up my radio. so could the radio be fixed or not, and if it could do you know how much it would cost? |
Kid_vicious
Senior Member
Username: Kid_vicious
Post Number: 1776
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2006 - 11:26 pm: |
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if this seems brief; please excuse me.
i just typed a long response to you, and lost it, so im kinda frustrated right now.
yes the radio can be fixed.
it will most likely be too expensive to make it worth it.
the radio you have is really not worth investing any money into.
not that its a bad radio, but just not worth investing in.
these days, repair bills are about the same price as a new radio, so thats what i would suggest.
any of the mobiles that copper carries will do just fine.
here is a suggestion on a radio that i like alot, and will do you proud.
http://www.copperelectronics.com/cgi-bin/checkitout/checkitout.cgi?catalogSTORE:CKIE:prodP70-05124+
and here is a good antenna for you:
http://www.copperelectronics.com/cgi-bin/checkitout/checkitout.cgi?catalogSTORE:CKIE:prodW30-05004+
i realize that the antenna seems almost as expensive as the radio, but the antenna is soooooo important. (as you are finding out)
most stock radios perform about the same, but antennas do not.
the one i suggested to you will allow you to grow with the hobby without having to get another antenna down the road.
if you tell me your price range, i can make some better suggestions.
good luck,
matt |
Knappy
Junior Member
Username: Knappy
Post Number: 24
Registered: 3-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, June 08, 2006 - 12:20 pm: |
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ok, first i am sorry for frustrating you, second i really don't know my price range right now. but i probably will find out soon. |
Kid_vicious
Senior Member
Username: Kid_vicious
Post Number: 1778
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Friday, June 09, 2006 - 12:53 am: |
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oh, sorry dude, i didnt mean to say that YOU were frustrating me.
we're cool.
its that i typed up a long and detailed response, tried to look up an item on ebay for a friend, internet explorer locked up and needed to restart.
all before i got to hit the send button.
its pretty disheartening.
oh well.
i know how it is when you are considering how much to put into something, based on how much you'll use/enjoy it.
i would say that if you are planning on using the radio solely to get traffic info, and for a roadside emergency, should one occur;
then i would say dont go over about $150.00.
if, however, you want to keep in touch with others that you know that own CB's, and maybe even talk to people that you dont know, and that may be a considerable distance away; then you should consider getting a radio with more features, that could bring the price tag up to $300+.
maybe you could get the antenna first, and use it with the radio you've got.
you cant hurt the antenna with the radio being a bit messed up.
also, you could find a garage sale special, get an SWR meter, and the Wilson 1000 and you'd be set. (if the radio worked)
good luck,
when you figure out what you want to spend; start a new thread about it, and you will get lots of different opinions.
matt |
Knappy
Junior Member
Username: Knappy
Post Number: 25
Registered: 3-2006
| | Posted on Friday, June 09, 2006 - 12:16 pm: |
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ok i will, but a SWR meter is a must, and ditch the silver load i have and get the Wilson 1000, and probably a new radio. |
Kid_vicious
Senior Member
Username: Kid_vicious
Post Number: 1781
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Friday, June 09, 2006 - 10:04 pm: |
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yes, your very first step is to buy an SWR meter.
i am really laening towards the radio shack model.
you can get it locally, the price is good, and it has SWR and a wattmeter in it.
that way, you buy the SWR meter and a jumper, and put it on the watt setting, and key the mic, the meter will show you how many watts the radio is putting out.
if its less than 2 watts, you should get a new radio.
if its 4-5 watts, then you are fine and can just get the wilson 1000 magnet mount.
good luck,
matt |
Knappy
Junior Member
Username: Knappy
Post Number: 26
Registered: 3-2006
| | Posted on Monday, June 12, 2006 - 12:14 pm: |
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thanks i am going to some truck stops probably this weekend to look at some radios do you have any suggestion on what kind i should get. |
Kid_vicious
Senior Member
Username: Kid_vicious
Post Number: 1798
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Monday, June 12, 2006 - 9:33 pm: |
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well, i wouldnt buy one from a truck stop.
thats like buying gas at the lake.
they will overcharge you and they know absolutely nothing about what they sell.
you are already at the best place to buy a radio from, may i ask why you dont just order one from copper?
even with shipping, it would still be cheaper than a truckstop radio.
if, for some reason, this is the only way you can go; buy a cobra 29LTD, or a uniden PC122 or PC244.
those are good radios.
the secret is not to get too eager and make an impulse buy.
go to the truckstops and get some prices.
take a piece of paper and a pen with you and write down what you find.
post it here.
compare anything you find to this page:
http://www.copperelectronics.com/cgi-bin/product_display.cgi?categories=RADIOS-CB+MOBILE
good luck,
matt |
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